A seller, canas8415, is… err, was selling copies of Daniel Fry UFO photos and claiming they are originals. The kicker is that the original eBay listing where canas8415 bought the originals is still visible. Compare for yourself and see. All you collectors of Daniel Fry material have been warned.
Here are the sordid details:
The original listing for the original photos is here. Note the pictures are black and white, have a noticeable bend to them which suggests aging, and the successful bidder was canas8415. The original B&W photos are a size I have seen before, not overly glossy and the “UFO” has clear details. Now compare those to the ones canas8415 is now selling and it is obvious they are copies.
I reported the fraudulent listing to eBay and contacted Canas8415 with this email:
Dear canas8415,
Do you take us for idiots? You bought the original photos off eBay back on March 10th (item #230228573466), made copies of them (using a glossy finish it looks like) and posted those.
You have been reported.
-theebigtoe
Canas8415’s response:
the daniel fry pictures that were purchased were 3 1/2 by 5′ color
prints.these photos are 8 by 10 black and white press copies purchased years ago.check your facts before opening your big mouth! and take that big toe out your ass. you have been reported for harrassment idiot….
-canas8415
My response:
> purchased were 3 1/2 by 5′ color prints
Color??? The previous ones (#230228573466) you bought are not color, even the still visible listing makes that obvious! Secondly, Fry *never* published color photos of UFOs which I know because I have been a long time serious collector of Fry’s material. The size of my collection is measured in boxes.
> photos are 8 by 10 black and white
Ok, so you enlarged the copies. It’s another “tell” the photos are faked, because I have never seen 8x10s published by Fry.
Don’t you think it is entirely suspicious that you buy prints at the beginning of March and then sell slightly larger, glossy versions that are the *exact same* pictures but now they are in “excellent condition and are unmarked”. BTW – Unlike your ad-hominem attack, I didn’t call you an idiot, I was just amazed you assumed your buyers are.
– I dare you to add these questions and answers to the end of your listing.
I have cc’d all these emails to eBay and pointed out that I run this website, own the copyright to DF’s work and I am writing a biography on Daniel.
Unfortunately, I suspect nothing will happen and some poor sap will be ripped off. The auction has 5 days left, it should be interesting.
Cheers, Sean.
UPDATE, 3pm, March 28th, 2008:
“Janet Canas” replied:
I have an elabrate (sic) collection of original ufo photographs and just recently purchased the Original Daniel Fry set. I am selling my old set because the clarity i admit isnt (sic) as good as the originals. I respect your reply and would never try to cheat someone who is expecting an original photo that is obviously very rare. Thank you
She has since modified her listing by removing “My uncle purchased these photos at a ufo convention about 15 years ago.” Not suspicious?
My response:
Janet, this listing just stinks:
- You have since removed the “My uncle purchased these photos at a ufo convention about 15 years ago.”
- Your low non-UFO related feedback
- Suspicious timing
- All five “copies” exactly match the five originals but on unscratched glossy. Old photos, especially twenty or thirty year old ones are dull and typically, like the originals, have warping. Yours are perfectly flat and bright as a new penny.
- You did not know Fry’s UFO pictures were never in color.
I asked someone else if they thought they were fakes and they concluded:
“I do Sean. They look extremely fake I’m afraid.”
Do you have pictures of the backs of your 8x10s that show an old style Kodak water mark? Perhaps a receipt that shows where and from whom you bought them?
Sean.
Janet is no doubt making up a fake receipt at the moment or adding some stamps to the back of her copies. (The “old style Kodak watermark” is something I made up, FYI)
Of course, the irony is that I am arguing about fakes of fakes, i.e. a fake original of a picture of a fake UFO.
Update, 6pm, March 28th, 2008
Janet replies:
I never listed these pictures as original kodacolor vintage kodak copies and know that there are thousands of Daniel Fry reprints available in color and black and white and can be purchased at ufo conventions. Obviously a place you’ve never been and that is where these photos were purchased. (C O P I E S!!!!)
The description now includes the word “copies” and here is the evolution of the changes from start to finish:
Daniel Fry 8 x 10 ufo photos. Lot of 5. These Photos are in excellent condition and are unmarked. My uncle purchased these photos at a ufo convention about 15 years ago. Clarity of these photos are pretty good considering age. Not sure what their worth, so bid with confidence. Thanks for looking…
Then changed to:
Daniel Fry 8 x 10 ufo photos. Lot of 5. These Photos are in excellent condition and are unmarked. Black and white not sure of age, clarity of photos are good and would look great framed.
Then yet again:
Daniel Fry 8 x 10 ufo photos. Lot of 5. These Photos are in excellent condition and are unmarked. Black and white copies, clarity of photos are good and would look great framed.
Quite a difference from start to finish – first they are “15 years” old and “photos”, then “age unknown but still photos”, then just “copies”. The buyer is at least fore warned. Of course, the real question is – did Janet make the copies?