← Back to Undated – Part One – Inglewood Unit 15

Undated Inglewood Unit 15 Of Understanding Jessica Madigam Talks On Riddle Of Reincarnation

Understanding Audio Transcript

Recording structure

• [00:00] Opening remarks and introduction
• [22:20] Main address
• [01:08:16] Development of the main themes
• [01:41:48] Questions and closing discussion

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[00:00] Opening remarks and introduction

Some of you remember when the Bridie Murphy craze was on, and when everyone was interested in having hypnosis parties and going back on the time track. And I have a friend who is a psychologist in Beverly Hills, and he doesn't believe in reincarnation. And during that time, he was putting several of his people, of his students, under hypnosis, and he finally found a young man by the name of Tom, who went very easily back on the time track. And he told him about one incarnation in China. He told him about another in Persia, another in India, and a recent one in England. And so finally, he began to have quite a bit of faith in what Tom was saying under hypnosis. And then one day, he thought, well, what would it be like if I could get Tom to go back to his very first incarnation? So in their session, Tom was on the couch, and he said, Now, Tom, I want you to go back. I want you to go back to your very first incarnation. It was a long silence. And he said again, Tom, I want you to go back to your very first incarnation.

And a long silence. And finally, once again, Tom, I want you to go back in time to your very first incarnation. And finally, after a long time, in a deep voice, Tom said, And on the seventh day, I rested. I believe in reincarnation so much that I can afford to make a little bit of fun of it because I believed in it about all my life. And when I found the Cayce readings, to me, this was the answer because I'd wondered about so many things. Why is the child born blind? Why does someone come into the body crippled? And all of these things that we all wonder about. And then I read the book, There is a River, by Thomas Chagroux, written about Edgar Cayce. And most of you probably know about Edgar Cayce. He was written up in so many magazines, in Coronet, The Miracle Man of Virginia Beach, and just recently in the Los Angeles Examiner, and so many different articles that you probably are familiar with his work. But for those of you who did not know about Edgar Cayce, it's spelled C-A-Y-C-E. He was quite an orthodox man.

He was a man who wanted to be a Presbyterian minister all of his life. And everything interfered with his becoming a Presbyterian minister, and very much. And finally, he found that he had this gift of going under hypnosis and being able to diagnose disease. In fact, his wife had tuberculosis, and this was a number of years ago. He was born in 1877, and it was in the early days of their marriage. And she'd been given up by her attending physician. And Edgar Cayce, knowing that he had this gift of going under hypnosis, did go under, and he prescribed for Mrs. Cayce. And after that, his son... who was five years old at the time, Hugh Lynn, dropped a lighted match and photographic fluid, and it exploded, and went into his face, and he was almost blinded. In fact, they were going to take out one of his eyes the next day. And again, Edgar Cayce went under hypnosis and prescribed something that the doctor said that he would never have used, except that the case was hopeless. And now, Hugh Lynn has very good eyesight.

A few years after this, a man came down to see Mr. Cayce. He was then living in Kentucky, by the name of Lammers. And this man was interested in everything that most of us here are interested in. So while Edgar Cayce was under hypnosis, he did a very strange thing. He said... He asked him about a horoscope reading, what he called a horoscope reading. And there was a long silence, and then Edgar Cayce spoke to him and said that two lives ago, you were a monk. And that was the first thing that ever came through on reincarnation. And later, he gave him a whole horoscope reading, according to his birth date. But when Edgar Cayce found what he had said, he worried about it a great deal, because he couldn't find it, he thought, at that time in the Bible. Although the Bible, the New Testament, is filled with reincarnation. And understand that there are a great many references in the Jewish traditional writings about reincarnation. And even in the Catholic Encyclopedia, if you want to look it up under transmigration,

it's mentioned several times. The early Gnostics believed in reincarnation. But Edgar Cayce was very skeptical. And almost to the time that he died, he wondered about reincarnation. He gave himself a life reading, but he never had what he called a checked reading. By that, he gave himself a general life reading, but he never went back and checked on the different periods. If some people had ten or twelve life readings, they were so interested. But this man was very sincere. went to Virginia Beach, I was skeptical, as everyone else was. I thought, well, is this just another, well, you know, how you feel about things like this. And I got off, I went all the way back several years ago, 13 years ago, on the bus. I'd been working in the summer, and I saved the money just to go back there. I was that interested. And when I got to Virginia Beach, I was terribly disappointed, because it was such an ugly little place. It was a merry-go-round in the middle of the street, and the ferris wheel, and so on. And on that morning, I went into a little restaurant to

have my breakfast, and I saw a man sitting there with very thick eyeglasses. And he had a little card that said A-R-E. That means Association for Research and Enlightenment. And I sat at the table opposite him, and finally I thought, well, I don't know how to go down to the old headquarters. I don't know where they're having this conference. I'll ask him, because apparently he is one of them. So I asked this man, and he said, well, I don't know how to go down to the old headquarters. I don't know where they're having this conference. I don't know where they're having this conference. I don't know where they're having this conference. I don't know where they're having this conference. And he with very thick glasses, how to get down to the A-R-E headquarters. And he asked me to have a cup of coffee. He said he would be walking down. And he told me his story, which Gina Seminara wrote about in her book, Many Mansions. And to me, because he was the first person who talked to me, who had a reading from Edgar Cayce, it's one of the most interesting stories of all. This man was born

blind. And at the time that he met Edgar Cayce, he was 34 years old. And his parents had been wealthy. He had a job. and he had gone to, I think, John Hopkins and any number of large hospitals in the East to have his eyes treated, and nothing could be done. So finally he heard about this man, Edgar Cayce, who by that time was in Virginia Beach, Virginia. So he thought, well, so I'll spend $10. I can't lose too much on that. I've gone every place I know. So he wrote to Edgar Cayce and asked for a physical reading for his eyes, and he got an immediate answer. And he was given osteopathic treatments that he should take and also a very strict type of diet. And he was told that in a matter of months that he would be able to see in his left eye and later in his right eye. And he told me the day I met him that he had 60% vision in his left eye and about 40% in his right eye so that he could read with these very thick lenses. And he said that he doubted for several years about the theory of reincarnation

and that he was going to die. And finally he thought, well, I will have a reading and I will ask why I was born blind. So he wrote again to Edgar Cayce and asked for a reading about why he was born blind. He'd been blind for 34 years until he met Mr. Cayce. And the reading said that he had been, many lifetimes ago, a Persian warrior. And he had taken a lot of captives and he had chosen to take out their eyes, to destroy their eyes. It didn't say how it was done. And then he asked, he said, well, you've given me several incarnations since then. You've said I've lived several times since then. Why didn't I meet this sooner? And he was told in the reading because you were not yet ready to bear it. And that's exactly what the reading said. Now this is an interesting life reading because he was also told that in his very last life his name was Bernard, S-E-A-Y, and that he was his own great-grandson in this life. And that he had died in the Civil War when he was 21 years of age. But that he had been a mason, 22 years of age, I think.

He had been a mason and he had bought property. And that he could go to a certain town in the state of Virginia and find a record of the property that he bought at that time. He could also find his gravestone. And he did both of these things. And he was, because he was born back into the same family, he was able to find a picture of the man. An old photograph of the man who had been himself, so to speak, in a past life. And the resemblance is amazing. That's one of the things that I found out when I was at Virginia Beach. Going through the records. Once in a great while, Casey would mention that you were thus and so. There were very few famous people. There were a few. And I started to do research on these. And one woman in particular, she looked so much like the person she had been. It was a close incarnation that she could have posed for that person in this life. So, according to the readings, reincarnation is a definite thing. It's something, he says, that we're all aware of on a subconscious level. In one sense, there is no such thing as reincarnation, he said,

because we have never completely incarnated. That there is a part of us. Remember that Edgar Cayce in his conscious mind was very orthodox. And sometimes this came forth in his subconscious mind, too. He said that we were always a part of God. And that some part of us had never incarnated at all. But that on the other hand, it was as if there were a great light. And on the floor, say on the wall, on the ceiling. And on the floor, there was a circle. And all of our lives were going on at the same time because there is no time in God's time. That's the way he put it in the reading. For us that have never had a Cayce reading, and Cayce is dead now. And we wonder how could we find out. Our own past incarnations. He said, he told any number of people, they would say, is there any way that I can know myself about my own past incarnations? And he would answer by saying, who can know better than you? You can know much better than an Edgar Cayce. And he would suggest meditation and dreams. He said that we're always aware of everything that we have been on some level of consciousness.

Gina wrote in her book a little phrase from John Macefield's poem. I hold that when a person dies, his soul returns again to earth. Arrayed in some new flesh disguise, another mother gives him birth. With sturdier limbs and brighter brain, the old soul takes the road again. Apparently, according to Cayce, that even the right to believe in reincarnation, or in any other metaphysical subject, is earned. That it's just not something that you just walk into and you know. It's something that you just walk into and you know. It's something that you've earned at some time, in some life, some place. Now, according to Cayce, everything that happens to us is sort of a result of the law of karma. He also said that there was a law of grace that was much higher than the law of karma. And he explained such healings as those at Lourdes by the fact that the person had forgiven himself. He said many times in the readings that karma, or the difficult experiences in our lives, do not come to us from some unjust God outside ourselves,

but they come from within ourselves. He said that the memory of everything that we are and everything that we have been is located in the adrenal glands. And that when the law of forgiveness for ourselves is in operation, that then we do not have to meet certain karma. For instance, he said that every disease, it's a karmic disease, such things as cancer and arthritis and tuberculosis. And he explained it in a very interesting way to me. He said, for instance, that we come into the body with a susceptibility, perhaps, to cancer. But unless we reactivate that particular karma, we may never meet it. We may never meet it at any time. He said that cancer was a result of many past lives of deep, hidden resentment. And that sometime in this life, when it comes up again, well then, perhaps we could develop it. I thought that was interesting, because we had a young doctor from Harvard who came down and spoke to our group just recently. And his name, he's half Chinese and half Caucasian. His name is Dr. Mel Singh, S-I-N-G-H.

And Mel was telling us that he had worked with, I think, 48 terminal cases of cancer, at Harvard. And that in each case, they had tried to find out the psychological reason, because now they're beginning, at Harvard, to think that there's something psychologically connected with cancer. People get well overnight. They don't understand this. And there are many different reasons, I suppose. But this much he did find. They just used terminal case histories. In every case, the person had been very disappointed about a year and a half to two years before they developed the disease. And because they were so disappointed, Mel said, for instance, there was a young girl, only about 19, and she had wanted to win a beauty contest. And she had lost. And that was a great disappointment of her life. Now, up here, unconsciously, she said, well, I don't care, I'm very happy about it. But apparently, inside of herself, she was very resentful. A woman had lost her husband. A man had lost his business. And apparently the resentment, these are the very sweet, kind people,

and they push the resentment. They push the resentment down. They're not able to face it. And I just mention that because it does tie in with the case he readings. He gave, for instance, a young man came to him who stuttered very badly. And just yesterday, I was reading a book by Dr. John Gutheel, G-U-T-H-I-E-L, a psychiatrist. And he said that in every case of stuttering that he had worked with, he had noticed that the person had always dreamed that he was a great speaker. Or he had dreamed that he talked to hundreds of people. Or he was able to move people. He said he didn't understand these dreams. And he talked about them being compensation dreams. And yet Casey said that in cases of stuttering, that it could be that it usually was. In fact, it went back to some time when we had misused our voice. And no one punishes us except ourselves. We're the only person, whoever gives us punishment. So that would be the karmic reason of stuttering. I don't know exactly what the reason is. Maybe you'd like to hear about karma or what.

So I'll just take some of these case histories. And later, if you want to ask me anything about why is a person crippled or something, I'll give you an answer from the Casey readings. One of the cases that Gina mentions in her new book, World Within, a young couple in Virginia Beach had a reading from Edgar Casey. And they were having a difficult marriage. The husband had been in an automobile accident. And he had been rendered impotent. And they didn't get along. They weren't happy together. And they had this reading from Edgar Casey. Now, he knew nothing about the man's physical condition. They asked for a life reading. And he said at the very beginning of the reading that any vow taken upon the altar of God and meant sincerely would carry over. And he said that they had been a nun and priest in the Catholic Church in France. And that they had fallen in love and that they had broken their vows. But subconsciously, they now wished to keep the vow. That they had determined on a subconscious level to do this.

That was one of the interesting readings that he had. A case of a young man who went to Edgar Casey who had a terrific inferiority complex. He wrote, I die a thousand times a day. It was during the war. And Casey said that he had been Edmund Gosse, G-O-S-S-E, who had been a writer, and who had written, written very critically of other people in his last life. And that because of this, he had come back into this life and been born to parents who had rather dominated him and given him this inferiority complex. Another young man came to Edgar Casey who was overtly homosexual. He had beautifully wavy hair. He had long fingernails that he kept polished. It was something that everyone noticed. And he had been turned down by the army. And when he came to Casey, he was very upset. And he said, I don't want to keep going this way. I don't know what I, why I am this way. And it's nothing that I can do about it. He had been under the care of a psychiatrist. And in giving him the reading, Edgar Casey said that he had been in the French court

at the time of Louis XIV, and that he had been an artist. And that he had laughed and ridiculed, through his drawings, people who were of this type. On another plane of consciousness, he said that, all of us are somewhat male and female because we haven't always been of the same sex. And that in coming over from one sex to another, that sometimes there are feminine characteristics for a man and sometimes masculine characteristics for a woman. One of the most interesting readings at Virginia Beach is that of a woman. She gave me permission to use her reading. She has a son who is a judge here in California, here in Los Angeles. And she was given nine lives by Edgar Casey. He usually gave four or five. He just gave what they were working on now, what they were working out karmically. But he gave her nine different lifetimes. And he told her that in one of them, she had been a woman in a court, in a court in Israel. I think it was the court of Solomon. I'm not sure. And there she had been in a high place, a sister, I believe, of Solomon.

But yet she felt that being a woman, she was inferior. And somehow she knew instinctively and intuitively that she'd lived before. And she said, if ever I live again, I'm coming back as a man. So when she was born again, she was born into Rome. And she became what? A man. And she became what he termed, we might call an admiral. And yet trying every day to prove herself, and this is interesting psychologically, so much of a man, she still had effeminate characteristics and so on because her soul path had been that of a woman. He said that we do change sex, but usually, as I understand the readings, that we tend to remain in the same sex. If you have one thing, he said over and over again, that whatever you desire in this life that's denied you, you may be very well sure that you're going to get it because desire seems to carry over from one lifetime to another. A woman who tried very hard to be a singer in a past life in this life was an opera singer. And one of the interesting readings, there's good karma also. A young woman in New York

wrote to Edgar Cayce and asked for a reading. She didn't say what kind of work she did. She didn't say anything about herself. And he told her that in her very last life she had been a nun, someplace in the state of New York. And that she had been in a very educated order. She had been a lay sister. And she felt that everyone else was so much more intellectual than she. And she had been the one that they assigned to scrubbing the floors. And every time she scrubbed the floors, or did all the menial work, she began to bless her hands. And she did this every day. She blessed her hands. And he wrote in the reading, he said that you in this life have such beautiful hands because of the many blessings that you gave your hands in a past life and because of your great service to others. And she wrote back and she said, you couldn't possibly know what my profession is. She says, I've been modeling my hands for 12 years. And she was one of the outstanding models. So good karma carries over just as well as anything else. I think I'll skip through some of this.

If you want to know any type of karma, you can ask me during the question period. Everything is, whenever we have to say why, he said this is usually karma. If we say over and over and over again, why does this happen? Why does this happen to me? Well then this is something that we have brought about. We can usually reverse it. You know in psychology that we have the term we call projection. That the fault that we accuse another person of, that we're very emotional, I can't stand him because he's always so selfish. According to Casey, as well as to psychology, this is our own greatest fault. And karma is pretty much the same thing. That when we start to be in a situation that we can do nothing about, and when it seems that outside people are the cause of the situation, it's something that we have ourselves done. And probably in a past life. That we have to meet the experience so that we can learn by it, which is the only reason for karma. Someone asked Edgar Casey once if there was a pattern, if we come into life with a pattern for ourselves.

And he said that every single individual came in with a pattern. We had, at this late date I've gone back to school and I'm majoring in psychology. And a few weeks ago we had Dr. Ashley Montague speak to us. And he's one of the best known anthropologists in the world. And he said that in working with so many delinquent children and delinquent boys, especially in England,

[22:20] Main address

that he's come to the conclusion that we have a world destiny and this world destiny is to love. He said because the very boy that has committed the most terrible crime is the one who actually is most in need of love. And he said he's gone in the cell so many times and the boy is fixing his cell, fixing his hair and looking in the mirror and saying, oh, are they going to take my picture? And he said it took him years to realize that this is the only way this boy could get love. That to him to be in the limelight just for a little bit is the form of love. And he said also the people who are the most difficult to deal with, these are the people who most need love. He told us a little story. He said they had found a chimpanzee several months ago in New York City Library. And the chimpanzee held the Bible in his right hand and the book by Darwin in his left hand. So they asked him what his purpose was and he said, well, I'm trying to find out if I'm my brother's keeper or if I'm my keeper's brother. If Casey is right, every time we sleep

that we enter another world. And I think this is interesting, especially according to the recent experiments they've been doing. I believe it's at the University of Chicago, you've probably read about some of these, that they have been testing to see how often we dream. And they took 24 boys and they used these little electrodes on their eyes and they found out that all during the night their eyes were very still, but the last 20% of the time that they were asleep, one-fifth, that the little electrodes started to move as if they were looking at a movie or as if they were reading a book. And that's how they determined that they are dreaming. And they went further with the experiment. Some of you, I know, have read this, but it ties in with what Edgar Casey said about dreams. They went further with the experiment and they took 12 of the boys and they woke them up during the time that they were dreaming. Now, three of these boys went absolutely to pieces and several of them dropped out of the experiment. They were very cross.

They were very bitter about the whole thing. They took the other boys that they were working with and they woke them up before, before the electrodes started to move. And they weren't concerned at all. They got along beautifully. So they came to the conclusion that if we never remember a dream, that we all dream the last part of the night, and that the dreams have some sort of healing therapy, psychological therapy that we know nothing about, that if we are a very deep sleeper that we probably don't remember the dream, but just the same we have the dream and it's as if it's some part of us trying to help us. Life is pretty difficult. I mean, there are times when everything is beautiful, but for most of us, life is a pretty difficult experience, at least at times. And that when this happens, that some part of us is trying to give us a form of actual therapy, a form of healing, far superior to what any psychologist or psychiatrist could do. Edgar Cayce said that every time we are in sleep, we leave the body. He said that when we are very sound asleep,

we leave the body. Now you can accept this or reject it. He also said that in dreams, that there was one part of us that was very, in the subconscious mind, interested in carrying on this life. We want to do the best we can here. And this part would carry on with subconscious dreams, so what he calls them emblematical or symbolic dreams, which is the type of a dream that a psychologist works with. He said, actually, the spirit, though, would leave the body and was in many, many realms of experience. He said, for we were not citizens of the earth, we were citizens of heaven, our citizens of the universe. He said that death, too, was simply an opening of a door that we had opened many, many times, that we had gone through this door more than once, and that we were very familiar with it, as familiar as we are when we go to sleep. He explained that such things, that we never break down dreams. I'm very interested in dreams. I work with the girls at prison, and most of them are dope addicts, and they're terribly interested in their own dreams,

and they seem to be getting answers. We're taking a Jungian approach. I can't mention Cayce, and I can't mention reincarnation. But they've been working now for almost a year on their own dreams, and they feel that they're getting a lot of answers and that they're being constantly guided. And I think so, too. I believe this with all my heart. And I can never talk about Edgar Cayce, but I can talk about Carl Jung, because he was a psychologist, and this is what I do. Cayce says that when we come into life, we have a definite pattern, something that we want to do. That we are aware of most of the main events of our lives, so that any time these can be changed. We have a general idea of when we will die. And this, too, according to Cayce, can easily be changed. She says that no one dies until he's ready to die. No one dies until he wants to die, until he's very, very tired of life. That we even choose the hour and the moment that we are to be born. And then we come into the body with something very definite to do, a lesson to learn,

and also a work to do. Now, he said that when we get here, we often get pretty burdened down with what's happening to us here, and that we forget. Children are very much aware at times why they came. But that we forget what we're doing here. And then he said that always there are dreams and also meditation, especially dreams. That if we start to look at our dreams, we can find a path of guidance for ourselves. I understood that Lois Martin talked for you here several months ago. And Lois said I could tell this dream. I think it's one of the most interesting dreams I've ever heard, where guidance is concerned. Lois said that her father had worked with the idea of reincarnation and leaving the body for so many years. And she knew that he didn't have too long to live. And this was on her mind. This is what we might call the dream stimulus, because it's important to remember what the dream stimulus is. She said that she dreamed that it was nighttime, it was dark, about midnight, and that she was on a pendulum. And she was coming seemingly from heaven.

Now this is a dream I think of birth. Even if you make it Freudian, it's of birth. And the pendulum is moving from right to left, and it comes very close, and it comes over a church or a playhouse. And then she says she finds herself on the wings. And her father is standing on the stage and he's talking to a great many people. And she stands outside and she's herself. And she thinks, oh, she says, I can never follow my father. I can never do what he's doing. I can never do the work that he's doing. And then in her dream, she looks down at herself and she's wearing the costume of a clown. Now of this, according to Cayce, it's always what does this mean to us? A clown to you might mean one thing and to me another. But Lois said that when she looked at herself and saw that she was wearing the costume of a clown, she suddenly knew that she could go on the stage and could follow her father because she said, what do people think about a clown? A clown can be herself or himself. A clown isn't asked to put on airs to be anyone else.

And then she knew in her dream that she could follow her father. So in her dream, her father left the stage and she followed her father in the clown costume. Now Lois is a very lovely person and she's a very fine lecturer. But she said this one dream gave her enough courage to go on with her father's work. And I think this is how, in a sense, that God speaks to us. He speaks to us partly in symbology. There are many other types of dreams. I had Betty Lasky in my class for a long time in a Cayce group in the afternoon. And once her father came to see us, old Jesse Lasky, a very nice man. He started the old Lasky Studios, which is now Paramount. And at this time, it was just before he died, he'd written a book called I Blow My Own Horn. And he came one afternoon and talked to us about the book. A few weeks later, he was dead. And then Mrs. Lasky came to class and she told us this story. And I think it's a very interesting story. I think it proves so much. It's almost what Cayce said about dreams being, that sometimes they're actually

a spiritual experience that we can bring back with us. She said that Mr. Lasky was not at all interested in this kind of thing. He just sort of put up with a wife who was so always lost in another world. And he made a little fun of it here and there. But the week before he died, he came into the kitchen one morning and he said, Bessie, I had the strangest dream last night. He said, I found myself in a country where I've never been before. He said, I don't know where it was. He said, we've been all over the world, but I surely would like to go there. And she asked him, she said, well, what happened? And he said, well, I don't know. He said, I walked along a stream and I looked in the stream and there were blue fish in it. And he said, I walked through a meadow. It was filled with flowers. And he said, there was a great farmhouse on the top of the hill. And he said, I never wanted anything like I wanted to go up there. But he said, I didn't go up there in my dream. She said that he had this dream every morning for a week.

And the last morning he came in and he said, Bessie, I went into the farmhouse last night. He said, I walked up that hill and I went into that farmhouse. And he said, guess who was there? He said, my mother came to the door and my sister came to the door and my brother. He said, now they're all dead. I don't understand it. But he said, I was so happy and I woke up so happy. And Mrs. Lasky said that she just had a sinking feeling. She didn't know why. And he said, you know, I'm going to Beverly Hilton today. I have to go. I have to give this book review. And he was quite happy about that. He kissed her goodbye. He left her at 10.30 in the morning. He went out to Beverly Hilton Hotel and he gave the book review to a woman's club out there. He had lunch. At 1.30 he walked to his car and just as he opened the front door he dropped dead of a heart attack. Now Mrs. Lasky is firmly convinced that Jesse Lasky actually had already been prepared to go out of the body. And I think so too. I think that he was able to remember this. It's a possibility at least.

It's a reading to write that we always have help from some source whenever we want it and whenever we need it. Khalil Gibran wrote in his book When Sarah is on my bed Joy sits at my table. And that's interesting too because Casey said that when we're going through the most difficult portion of our life here, when everything is so dark that we walk almost as if we're going to commit suicide, we just pray to get through one day at a time. He says at that very moment on the inner planes we have the most joy and we have the most happiness because we are always trying to balance ourselves. And even so, if we try to remember dreams, even if they're symbolic dreams and just sort of teaching us a lesson, that we're able to bring back some of this happiness from the other plane. I hope I made the difference between a super conscious dream. He says that a super conscious dream is an actual experience, something that really happens to us outside of the body. And once in a great while we can bring it back. I don't know how often, I've only brought back

about seven in my lifetime. But he said for the most part we remember symbolic dreams and that's the part of our subconscious that is carrying on while we are out of the body. He said that when we wake up very happy, that it's actually a feeling of having been out of the body and having experienced and suddenly knowing that we're doing very well, so to speak. We're doing just fine and we wake up happy. And he said on the other extreme that when we wake up very unhappy, either we are aware of someone who is dear to us, who is in trouble or who is suffering, or else we are aware of some feeling somewhere on our own part. When I was in Virginia Beach, I was Hugh Lynn Casey's secretary for 10 months, two years ago. And I did a lot of research there. And I found out that there was a story in a copy of an old faith magazine and there was a story there written by a man who said it was a true story. It was written very badly. I was interested in the story because they left in so many grammatical errors, even errors that I noticed. He said that he had arthritis

for many, many years and he had been an invalid and that during this time he had a dream that came again and again and again. It started when he was about 15 years old. He simply dreamed that his life was not going to be the same again and again and again and he dreamed that he was in another world and he was in a house and there was a woman there with him and they were very happy together and they talked, they played the piano, they sometimes sat by the fireplace, according to him they had sandwiches and so on and these were such happy experiences. And he said that all of his life that this dream had come again and again and again and in one of his dreams he had turned to the women, the girl with him and he had asked her, he said, I know that you love her must be in the earth and I want to find you. I'll go wherever you are. And she said, well, I can't tell you where I am. She said, it isn't for us to be together in the body. It's for us to be together here. And he said that he woke up and he determined that he'd go to every big city in the east until

he found her. And he looked for her for several years. And finally, he met another girl, a girl far different from the one of his dreams. And he married her. And they had, I believe, two or three children. Most of his life, he was an invalid. And then he said in the story that he and his wife had moved to a little town in Missouri. And one Sunday morning, they'd gone to the Methodist church. And there, to his amazement, the woman who was playing the organ was the girl of his dreams, the woman that he had dreamed about for so many years, about 25 years by that time. And he said, as soon as the church service was over, he walked down to her and she turned around and looked at him. And she called him by the name that she called him in dreams. Which was not his own name. I think she called him John. And he said they talked together for a long time. They found that over the years that they had dreamed together, so to speak. And in reading this story, I thought, well, this sounds like a Peter Ibbotson story. I think he probably

just copied it. And I wrote him a letter. And he wrote me back in Virginia Beach. And I cried when I read the letter. It was so sincere. And it was written so badly. I knew he was telling the truth. And he said that he had, had met this girl and had these dreams all these years. And he said he wanted to tell his story because this was what had happened to him in this life. And he had been told by the doctor that he had a very bad heart condition and he had only a few months to live. And he'd written it to Fate Magazine. And he said every word was true. And he said in his letter that after he met the girl, that she thought it best that she go away. And she had left the town and gone to another city. And he hadn't seen her again. But that they had talked together once in a great while, by long distance telephone, about some dream. Their dreams were still the same. Now, according to Edgar Cayce, this might be what Plato would have called a twin soul or an alter ego. I don't know. He said that so many times in life, we never meet the person who's

been with us from the beginning of time, that actually at times, that if there is an alter ego and that this other part of us stays on the other side to sort of help us through life, rather like a guardian angel. Apparently, both of these people were in the body, but they did not marry. And yet they were able to help each other in dreams. It may just be a fantastic story, but it fits in beautifully with the readings, with what Edgar Cayce had to say. Probably the person who doubted reincarnation, most of all, was Hugh Lynn Cayce. And that was Edgar Cayce's oldest son. Hugh Lynn simply refused to believe in reincarnation. Tom Shugrue told me once, Tom wrote the book about Edgar Cayce. There is a book called The River. And Tom said that when they were roommates in college, that Hugh Lynn would say over and over again, you know, he said, I don't mind my dad being a psychic. When I was a little boy, everybody made fun of me because of it. He said, they said, your dad is that strange fellow. But he said, I can't stand this reincarnation business. And Tom Shugrue told me this story. He said that

Hugh Lynn, they went to the Washington and Lee University. And he said that Hugh Lynn was not asked the first year to join the fraternity. And he was terribly hurt about it. Very anxious to join. And this was on his mind quite a lot. But the second year, sophomore year, he was asked to join a fraternity. And he and Tom were roommates that second year. Tom was the head of the fraternity. Tom said that what happened on the night that they were to take the pledges, the boys, they were all dressed up in their tuxedos. And they were to walk down the long, corridor. And there were candles on each side. And Tom said that he stood up on a platform. And all the boys came down and simply took their pledge. And each one was carrying a candle. So he said that when Hugh Lynn got to him, to his amazement, that instead of taking the pledge of the fraternity, he burst out in Latin. And Tom was majoring in language. And Tom said that he took the vows of a monk. He just burst out. It just poured out. And he, instead of taking the pledge,

he was trying to take the vows of a monk. So then Hugh Lynn told me his side of the story. He said as they started to walk down this long, dark hall, that he had this strange feeling for the first time in his life of being back in time. I've done all this before. And he kept saying over and over and over again the pledge he was to take. He could hardly remember it. And when he got to Tom, he was all ready to say the pledge. And he burst out in Latin. And that was the way that Hugh Lynn began to believe in reincarnation. If you know Hugh Lynn, she of all the people I've ever known, he is the most skeptical. In fact, if you want him to believe something, you're going to have to have it all down in writing and everything else. He does accept reincarnation now. He even gives lectures on it. But Casey said that is something that you can't teach reincarnation any more than you can teach God, because every person has to know within himself. And it's just ridiculous to say this is true if someone isn't ready to accept it.

Everyone knows subconsciously. That it's true. Even according to a psychologist, to Freud, for instance, no one believes that he's ever going to die. Not really. I mean, up here we say, well, we're going to die, but we don't even believe it. And the reason is because we know subconsciously that we're not, that there is no such thing as death. If an atom bomb struck us at this moment, probably it's now nine o'clock at 915 would be right on in the same position and not even know if Casey is right, that we have been, that we are dead. It would take us a little time to find out. During the war, there was a young woman in my class who's now quite a well-known artist. She was very interested in the Casey readings and she had a lot of difficulty in her life. She was under the care of a psychiatrist and her main problem was insomnia. She couldn't sleep. But when she would finally go to sleep, she'd have the same dream over and over. And I tell it only because it's interesting to me. I think she actually had an experience that she was able to bring back, bring

back in full. She said about 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning, maybe later, she'd go to sleep. And so she'd sleep until very late in the day, perhaps until noon or so. And during the early morning hours, the same thing happened over and over. It was a dream that came over and over again. She had quite a lovely apartment. She had been in love with, her trouble was that she'd been in love with a man for many, many years. And he suddenly took a trip, I think, to San Francisco and met someone and was married in a week. And she was terribly disappointed and terribly hurt, and she was under the care of a psychiatrist. In her dream, she would be in her apartment, and she would see herself lying on the bed. And then she would feel her eyes opening. And she said that through her closet door, a man came. And it was, he was always, now this is very odd, he was always smoking a cigar. And she said, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. And she said, he would just be saturated with cigar smoke. And he'd stand there a moment, and he'd say,

Bernice, it's time to go now. And in her dream, she'd get up. And I'd say, well, what would you be wearing? And she'd say, well, I would always be wearing what I had on the day before, or whatever I was thinking about wearing that very day. And she'd find herself dressed. And she would follow him, and they would seem to leave their apartment and be walking down a long corridor. And then she said she'd find herself at Sawtelle. And it would be close to noon, close to the night. And she'd say, well, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. And she'd say, well, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. And she'd say, well, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. And she'd say, well, lunchtime. This was during the war. And she said she was back in those cottages. I think it's in the Wadsworth area. I've gone out there a number of times. And if you're familiar with Sawtelle, in those cottages, the boys do pretty much what they want. They have beer, and they have a great many things that the others don't. And she said this is where she

always went. And it was always around lunchtime, and they would be having their lunch. On Sunday, she said, for instance, they had fried chicken. And she said they would have their beer in the afternoon, and she would talk to them. And it was a hospital kind of thing, too. So in her dream, she knew that she was asleep. She always knew this, but she said she knew also that these boys were dead, but they didn't know it. And in one of her dreams, she met a young Mexican boy, and he said, Bernice, he said, I know I'm dead. He said, nobody else does, but I know it. And he said, I want you to call Sautel, and I want you to find out, if you can, I want you to find out when I died. He said, I have no sense of time. And he said, I don't know if I've been over here a week or a year. So she actually called Sautel. He had quite a difficult name. And she spelled it out the way she remembered it. And at first she was told that no one had been there by that name, and certainly no one had died. And then she called back.

And she had misspelled it. Last name. She had just changed one or two letters. And they said, yes, there had been this young man, and that he had died about eight months before, that he had been an artist. And in the next dream, just like carrying on a serial story, she met him, and she told him this. And she said, are you an artist? And he said, yes, I am. He said, and you're a very poor one. And in her dreams, now this woman, I believe with all my heart, she was telling the truth. I used to just wait for her dreams. In her dreams, he began. He began to teach her art. And he told her that she wasn't doing very well, but that she would do much better as time went on. Now, she began to get better. She told the psychiatrist the dream, and he said, all this is wish fulfillment. All this is something that is to make you feel better. You want to feel that you're helping the boys at Sautel. The last dream that she ever had, she dreamed again that she went to Sautel. And here she met this same boy. He said, Bernice, he said, I'm not going.

I'm not going to see you anymore, because I'm going on. And he said, I don't think you're coming here anymore either. I understand that you're going up higher, too. So they walked through these cottages, and she talked to the boys and so on. And another boy came to her, and he said, Bernice, he said, I think I passed on. So he was beginning to get the awareness. Now, he had lost a leg. And he said, do you suppose that when I really know that I've gone on, that I'll have both legs again? And she said in her dream, she says, yes, I think so. He said, I think that we move. He said, sometimes some of the boys move out of here. They seem to, we think they're going to another cottage. He said, but I seem to be feeling that I'm not in the body anymore. I'm not back there. She never again had the dream. Never again. And the psychiatrist said that it was because she was very close to being well. And yet, she said that these dreams were so vivid and so real. And especially, it worked out with her art. She tried to do what this young Mexican boy had told her, man had taught her.

And she later married and went to Mexico and had a showing at Mexico City of her art. And now she's quite well known in California. She was recently written up in one of the art magazines. Now, this was her experience. I don't think she would have remembered it except that perhaps, Casey said that when our psychic centers are open, this is often what we call insanity. It's what we call unbalance. And yet, or imbalance. And yet, at this time, we're often aware of things that we will never be aware of again in our lives. And I think this may be what happened with Bernice. In asking about death, so many people ask Edgar Cayce about death. And he would say a very simple sentence. He would say, as a tree falls, so shall it lie. And I used to read that in so many life readings. Well, what does he mean? As a tree falls, so shall it lie. And finally, he said, in one of the readings, he said that if you die a very good Methodist, that you're going to remain a good Methodist, at least for a time. That there's not a, that on the third plane, I believe he called, the third plane of experience,

that there is very much the same type of life such as we know, much happier, but that without the financial worries and so on. But life goes on. And then in one of the readings, no, not. In one of the readings, in one of his own experiences, he later wrote about a young woman who had worked for him when he was a photographer. And she had come to the door one night, and he had heard the knock, almost in the dream state, but he had gone down to his front door, opened the door, and she said, Mr. Cayce, do you remember me? And he said, well, of course. She had worked with him when he was in Kentucky. And he said he knew instantly that she was out of the body. And even to him, it was rather like a dream experience. And she said, No, she said, I had so much trouble with my throat. And she said, now Dr. So-and-so is living in the town where I'm living. He said, where are you living? And she thought that she was living in Norfolk, Virginia. Yet she had died, and he knew this several years before. And he talked to her quite a long time, and he told her that she had passed on.

And she was quite amazed. And she said that she had just a very vague memory of certain things, but she wasn't yet ready to realize it. She was amazed. And she said that she had died in another state of consciousness. Apparently, in a sense, as I said before, we die every single night. One of the most beautiful experiences that I've ever read at any time, and this I gave to my girls at Corona, we have about 400 girls every Friday afternoon, and that we cannot talk about reincarnation, and we cannot talk about life after death, but we can talk about anything that's in a book that they have okayed. And they okayed everything that was written by Peter Marshall, or by Catherine, or by Catherine Marshall, his wife. You know that Peter Marshall was the chaplain of the Senate, and he died 10 or 12 years ago. He had a heart attack. I think he died at 46. Well, Mrs. Marshall wrote this last book, the last book that she wrote about her husband. I understand she's married again. I told the girls that. They were disappointed.

And one of the girls raised her hand, and she said, Well, Jessica, I guess it's better to have one husband in earth than two in heaven. Catherine Marshall, I heard her talk in Washington, D.C., just about two years ago, and she wasn't married at that time. And she talked about the time after her husband, Peter Marshall, died. And she said that for such a long time that she was in a state of complete despair. She kept thinking, Well, how could this happen? Why did it happen at all? Peter had so much to give to so many people. And she said, Even though he had heart trouble, he was not expecting to die. He just believed with all his heart and soul. And she said, Even though he had heart trouble, he was not expecting to die. And she said, Even though he had heart trouble, he was not expecting to die. And he would be healed. She had been healed of tuberculosis, as she tells in her book. And he would say, Well, Catherine, I know, I just know that in a year I'm going to be perfectly well. He had some sort of meditation experience where he suddenly saw himself perfectly well within a year.

And in a year he was dead. He had actually seen himself probably on the other side. She said she prayed for months and months and months. God, why did this happen? Where is my husband? Will I ever see him again? And she said that their marriage had been such a close marriage and such a real marriage that they even had a form of telepathy with each other at times. And finally she had a dream. And this dream is written in the book, and so I read it to the girls. She said that she dreamed that she was out of the body, and she knew she was out of the body. She was very free and very light. And she was sort of floating or walking very fast toward a hilltop where there was a huge old-fashioned hotel up there. And she said she got to the hilltop and she went inside and she was looking for Peter. She felt that he should be there. And she knew that he wasn't inside, so she walked outside. And when she did, she saw her husband, and he was working with roses. He had a hoe in his hand, and he was hoeing with roses. And she ran out to him and she threw her arms open and ran into his arms,

and he kissed her. But she said that... And the amazing thing, he held her sort of at arm's length. He didn't let her get too close. And she felt this, and she wondered about it. And they talked together for what seemed to her, in her lecture, she said about two hours. They talked about every possible problem that she could have in the future and everything that she was going through in the present. They even talked about money and about his will and so on. And he told her, he said, Catherine, I know that you're writing a book about me. And he said, if it will help people, we'll then go. Go ahead and do it. And yet he was quite a shy man. And she said, finally she realized that she was going to have to go back to her body. And she said, Peter, I know I'm dreaming. But she said, I know that I can come back here and be with you again. And he said, yes. He said, I want that. And she left him. But when she woke up, she said her face was flooded with tears because, mainly because he had held her at such an arm's length.

And she said she thought about that. She thought about that for days. She said, I know how much my husband loves me. And why did he do this? Why didn't he embrace me and kiss me and let me be close to him? And then she said, suddenly it came to her that Peter had died, not expecting to die. He'd been a minister. And in many ways, he was very orthodox. And she said that what had happened, he had spent all of this life, most of this life, telling people what's going to happen when you die and so on and what the purpose of life. And yet, finding himself dead, he was given a job. He said they had given him. She didn't know who had given it to him. Of digging roses. So for him, it was a transition period. That he was in a state of shock, perhaps, even on the other side, finding himself out of the body. And she said suddenly she knew why he had held her in such a strange manner. She said she knew that Peter always wanted to do the right thing and the orthodox thing. And he just felt it wasn't quite right to kiss your wife in heaven.

She said because of this dream, she had enough strength to go.

And several times during that year, she went back to him and she found him in different states. She only wrote the first one in the book. And then she said that she began to work with other people and ask them, what do you know? Everyone knows something about life after death. Everyone has had some sort of an experience or someone he knows, someone in his family has had such an experience. And she began to ask people about this. And she collected quite a lot of stories. It's in her last book. I think it's called Beginning Again. Some of you may know the title. Is that it? To live again. To live again, yes. To live again. And one experience that she told in the book, also she told it in Washington when I heard her, I thought it was very, very interesting. She said that she knew a young doctor, and he had actually been dead for, I don't know, a few minutes, and that he told her what had happened. He said that if he wrote ten books, he couldn't tell everything that happened during the short time that he was dead.

He'd been in the hospital. It was during the war also. He'd had pneumonia, and he was to leave the hospital in two weeks, I believe, and start medical school. He was 19 years old, and this was on his mind. This is what he wanted. And one day, according to the young man, he found himself simply out of the body and looking back at himself on the bed, and he was very emaciated. And suddenly he walked through the dormitory or through the corridor, and he wasn't sure where he was. And he had this terrible feeling of being alone. And then he realized that he must be dead. And it was a terrible thing. He didn't want to be dead. It was the last thing that he wanted. Now, if I understand what Casey says about death, as a tree falls, so shall it lie. We meet death on our own plane of understanding. He was an orthodox young man. I think she said he was Episcopalian. And he began to pray, and he prayed to Jesus. And please, Master, help me. And suddenly, in this dark corridor, it was filled with light, and he saw the Master.

And he said, oh, he said, I'm too young to die. You have to do something about this. I'm too young to die. And the Master said, well, no one is too young to die. What have you done with your life? And he was only 19, and he thought for a moment, and he said, well, I was an Eagle Scout. And the Master told him, well, even this could be self-aggrandizement. And then, as he talked to Jesus, and from what she said, he saw Jesus very much as Hoffman painted him, with brown eyes and brown hair. Jesus said, well, you can go back to the body. And in going back, what do you want to do for mankind? And he said he would spend all of his life trying to help humanity. And she said that he found himself back in the body. They had administered adrenaline or something of that nature. And it's on record that he was actually dead. His heart had stopped beating. And this was his experience. And yet he told her. That if he wrote ten books, he couldn't write everything that happened in those few moments out of the body. So this is also the way that Cayce describes death.

That it's something that we've known, and something that we've experienced over and over and over again. I have a friend. This is a true story. This, I can tell you, absolutely is true. I don't think we should be too serious about death. I don't know how I got off on death. She's a very wonderful person. She was ill for a long time. She was out at Olive View. And when she was there, she had the story of Edgar Cayce and Gina Seminara's book on reincarnation. She had a very fine doctor who worked with her and who actually removed a lung, I believe. And yet now she's living back again in her apartment with her husband. She admired and liked this doctor very much. He used to come to her and he'd say, Flora, I don't know why you read that junk. I just don't understand it. And she tried to get him to read it. And she would pray for him. She never could get him to, be at all interested in this kind of a thing. And just about three months ago, about midnight, his wife called her. And they had become close friends. And she said,

Oh, Flora, she said, Bill passed away. She said, just about an hour ago. He had a heart attack and he passed away. It was very quick. It just happened just in an instant. He was watching TV and he toppled over. And she said, You know how he was. You know he didn't believe anything. That he thought that when we were dead, that we were dead. Will you please pray for him? And Flora said, Yes, she would. She's a very conscientious person. So she began to pray for this doctor. And she prayed every day. She prayed over and over and over and over every day from 12 to one. She would pray for him. And she said that one day she suddenly knew that he was in the room. She knew it. She had her eyes closed. She just felt his presence. She knew he was there. And very slowly she opened her eyes and she looked at him. He was standing there looking at it just exactly as he'd always looked. And he said, Flora, will you stop that? You're driving me crazy. So I think that he met death on his own terms. I think actually her prayer was not making him too happy.

He wasn't yet ready for what she was praying for. To come back to reincarnation, I have just two more stories and then I'm finished. Some of you may have read the book, The Death on Rembrandt, which I think is quite an interesting one. The one that was written by Van Loon and that he copied from the diary of his great-grandfather nine times removed. It's worth getting. You can get it with 50-cent copies. And I think one of the most interesting things is the death of Rembrandt. Dr. Van Loon said that his great-grandfather, nine times removed, was Rembrandt's best friend and his personal physician. And as you know, that all during his life, Rembrandt had a very tragic life, that he died an alcoholic, he died an old man whom people made fun of, and children threw stones at him. And yet, until almost the very day he died, he painted. I think he died of pneumonia. And Dr. Van Mood said in the book that he had copied this word for word from the diary, that not one word was changed. And he makes no comment about it, you can draw your own conclusion.

All during his life, Rembrandt had been very interested in the story of Jacob. That had been his favorite story in the Bible. And they had often talked about it, he and Dr. Van Mood. And on the night that he was dying, Rembrandt turned to Dr. Van Mood and he said, will you read to me once more the story of Jacob? So Dr. Van Mood took down the Bible and read the story of Jacob from the very beginning. And when he got to the place that said that the angel, wrestling with Jacob, the angel said, Thou shalt no more be called Jacob, but thou shalt be called Israel, because as the prince, as thou prevail with God and man. He said that Rembrandt sat up in bed and his whole face was alight. And he lifted up his hand, his old, pulsed hand, and it was shaking. He looked at it as if he had never seen it before. And he said, For thou shalt no more be called Jacob. For thou art Rembrandt, and as the prince, thou hast prevailed unto the very end. And with those words he died. And those are the last words in the book. It's a beautiful story.

There's another story that's told by Joseph Mahoney that may relate to reincarnation. I've tried and tried, and so has Gina, to check the story. I never like to tell a story that isn't checked. But I haven't been able to find, I found the painting, but I haven't been able to find anything else. Joseph Mahoney tells, this is in his own book, a lot of stories on life after death and so on. He says that Dante Gabriel Rossetti, who was of Italian descent, was married to a young milliner who had TB. It wasn't the best marriage in the world. They weren't the happiest people in the world, but she was very beautiful, and he wanted to paint her. And he painted her as St. Agnes. And he also dedicated several of his poems to her. And incidentally, Rossetti wrote about, in several points, about reincarnation. I have known you before, and so on. He finally painted her as St. Agnes. And in the painting, she has her hands crossed like this. She's a very tall, slender, blonde woman, very lovely. And he called it St. Agnes. And this was his favorite painting of his life.

His wife was taking Demerol, or something of that nature, and for her tuberculosis, and so that she could sleep. And she took an overdose, and she died in a rather tragic, tragic way. And for a long time, Rossetti was almost insane. He took all of his poetry and buried it with her. He put all of his paintings against the wall in the closet someplace. And it took them a long time to get him to write again or to paint again. And he didn't live too many years after her death. William Rossetti, according to Mahoney, wrote the story in his diary. William Rossetti was the brother of Dante Gabriel Rossetti. And William Rossetti went down into Italy. They were of Italian descent, but born in England. And one afternoon, one rainy afternoon, according to the story, he was in the art gallery down there, just aimlessly walking from painting to painting. And suddenly he came to a painting of his sister-in-law, who is now dead. And he looked at her, and he thought, well, someone is copying my brother's painting. Because it was definitely the same woman.

Her hair was a little darker. Her eyes were different. But it was the same woman. And she was standing there. And the only difference was that her hands were not crossed. So he went to look for the curator, and he found him. And he said, I think this must be a copy of one of my brother's paintings. And the curator said, why, this was done some 400 years ago by a rather unknown Italian artist by the name of Ancio Terry, I believe. And he said he walked back and looked at it again. And it was so much what his brother would have done. And he said, by any chance, he would have never painted any place of the artist. And the man said, yes, it's a very small self-portrait. And he took him in another room, in a storeroom. And there was this small portrait. And William Rossetti wrote that he walked to this portrait and stood in front of it. And he started to cry because he was looking at the face of his brother, Dante Gabriel Rossetti. Now, of course, the Rossettis believed in reincarnation. And perhaps subconsciously, he was looking for this kind of experience.

But it's not just the artists of the world. Apparently, who believe in such a thing. Some of you may remember that just two years ago, I think it was November 1959, or November 1958, in Reader's Digest, there was a story by Mark Twain. It was written toward the end of his life. And they had called it in Reader's Digest, My Platonic Sweetheart by Mark Twain. Some of you probably read it. Some of you very likely know it better than I do. It's been republished, I understand. Mark Twain said, that three times in his life that he'd had this experience. And every time it was more real to him than anything that had ever happened in all of his life. Now, apparently he had a fairly good marriage and he had children and he was a fairly happy man. He had a great many financial difficulties. But he said that the very first time he had this dream, he was a fairly young man, quite a young man. And he simply dreamed that he had a different name. And that he was with a girl who was about 17 and in the first dream she was named Agnes.

And that they were down south someplace and that they were walking across a meadow. And that he was just walking hand in hand. And he turned to her and he said, I'm 19 and you're 17. And he was in his dream so aware of how happy they were. And then he said, about 20 years later, he had the same dream. Only this time he found himself. I believe it was 20 years later. He had the same dream. He was in England. He was with the same girl. Again, he was 19 and she was 17 and he had one name and she had another. And it seemed to him that she was going to die. And he was terribly unhappy when he came out of this experience. The third time I remember so well, because he said he was between one step and another going across the street. And apparently he blacked out or blanked out and just went back in time. He found himself in Greece at the time of Socrates. He said Socrates was in a large square speaking to quite a number of people. And he said, I'm going to meet you. And this was the first time he had met Socrates.

And he was this young man and he had been on a balcony with this same young woman and she had a different name, a Greek, Grecian name. And they were both looking down at Socrates. And she was 17 and he was 19. And he looked at her and smiled and spoke to her. And they both looked down at Socrates. And he said, when he came out of this, he thought this is the most vital, the most real

[01:08:16] Development of the main themes

thing that has ever happened to me, that he had never seen this girl in life, that he never expected to see her. He was an old man. man when he wrote the story and yet he said that this must be a part of death he couldn't explain it i think that he believed in reincarnation even uh brings it in one of his books uh connecticut yankee and king arthur's court but he said that suddenly that he knew that all life must be one he had never seen this person and he didn't say too much about her and yet all of his life uh nothing had ever happened that brought him such a feeling of reality as this particular experience and that seems to be what happens to so many of us and we don't understand it um it happens over and over and over and over again uh casey said in one of the readings we are not citizens of the world we are citizens of the universe and that death is a very old and very beautiful experience that in dreams that we are often made up of and that we are made up of and that we are made up of and that we are made up of

that which we've always been, we are never alone, we are never unhappy, we are always, oh, I promised to talk about prophecy, I'll just take one minute to do that, that we are always that which we were meant to be. So that this part of our life here is just a small phase of what our real life is. That this is a dream, and that death is reality, and this is what Mark Twain seemed to believe. I was asked to tell one more story and to take up two prophecies, and it will take me less than five minutes, but I'd like to do it. Talking about finding past incarnations, and then I'll talk about prophecy. As your case has said simply, the main thing is to desire to know. And if you want to know, if you're going through some very difficult experience, if you're blind and want to know why you're blind, you can actually find out. That you can find out through your dreams and through meditation. A number of years ago, when I was in the United States, I was in the United States, and I was in the United States, and I was in the United States.

When I first came into the Casey work, I did not have a reading, I'd written to Edgar Casey for one. I wrote to his secretary, and I said, what can we do, those of us who did not have a Casey reading, how can we find out a past life? And Gladys Turner, Edgar Casey's secretary for so many years, she wrote back and said that there was a man in Pasadena by the name of Proust, who had worked with A.R. Martin, and that he was doing the same type of work as Edgar. And we went over to see Mr. Martin several times, Gina and a number of us, and he actually used what he called a form of reverie, but actually it's a form of hypnosis, I think. And I did go back on the time track. But this was the thing that I wanted very much. I didn't discover anything that was really an answer to my problem. And one day, I had a tooth out. This is a true story. I haven't told it for three years, and I wouldn't tell it now except someone asked me to. I had a tooth out, and I had sodium pentothal, and I understand that it's quite

a common thing for people who have sodium pentothal to have what is now called an anesthetic revelation. This is the word psychologists use for it. Well, I didn't have this. Nothing happened to me when I had the tooth out. But that night, my tooth was very sore for some reason. They left a little bone in it. And I was in a lot of pain, and I'd taken a lot of aspirin. And I was lying in my bed, and I was thinking about all the pain. And suddenly, I suppose it was the aspirin and the sodium pentothal and everything else. I was not asleep. I didn't seem to be asleep. Suddenly, I felt that Edgar Cayce was beside me, and I turned my head, and he was there. I saw him. Perhaps I was out of my mind. I don't know. But he was there. And it seemed just... He should be. I mean, I didn't even wonder about it. And he started to talk to me. And he said, Jessica, if you will look at that little spot on the wall, it was just a little tiny spot where the moon was coming in, and think just about that, the pain will stop. And I did it.

I looked, and it all went away. It was a matter of concentration. And he began to talk to me, and I was having a lot of difficulty at that time. I don't think I have to go into it. I was having sort of a psychological thing that I didn't understand at all. And in this dream... Dream experience, so whatever it was, and I knew nothing about psychology then. This was 13 years ago. He simply took me back to a day when I was five years old, and I was with my foster mother. And she did something that was a very bad thing for a little girl, five years old. And he said that what I had done, I had developed this resentment, and I had never let myself think that it was my mother. He said, you were a person who was meant to love, and what you have done, you have started to hate. And it's a very hard thing to explain. You can't explain a fourth-dimensional experience. He showed me that where you're supposed to love, you can also easily hate. And that I was hating actually my mother, my foster mother, but I wasn't aware of this,

and I didn't know it. And so I was actually having trouble with several older women, and I was making them my mother. He explained all this in very simple terms. And as he explained, I saw it, and I don't understand how. I saw exactly what I was doing, that I was hating when I should love, that I had not forgiven my mother, and that I must. And then, like, looking through a book, there seemed to be a book in front of me, and he turned it, and I suddenly began to see past lives. The first one I saw was in China, and he said, because of... In this life, I saw myself as a young Chinese girl who had committed suicide. And he said, very simply, he said, because you took your life when you were greatly needed, suicide, others have been taken from you. And it had been a pattern in my life, that I'd lost my parents, I'd lost my foster parents, I'd lost almost everyone in my life through death. And he said that now I was to learn that life was very valuable. And I didn't know anything about the Cayce readings at that time.

I had only read the book, that's all I knew. And the final thing, which I know some people won't believe it, but I am telling you the truth. He said that he wanted me to remember the experience, because it would help other people. And I simply saw... As if looking at a Technicolor picture, in a strange way of living it at the same time, I saw a young girl, about 20, I think, with long red hair, wearing a white satin dress, wearing a red velvet cape, about 300 years ago. I seemed to know the time. And she was standing in a room that was filled with mirrors, and oh, she was so sure of herself. And I was such a timid person 13 years ago. I never... Never in my life had even given a three-minute talk in class at that time. And as I watched her, I saw that she was very extroverted, and I'm a very shy introvert. And she turned and she ran down a hand-painted staircase. And I could see the staircase, I could do it now, I could actually paint it. And she ran out and got into a carriage. And he said, she is one of the six surrounding Charles the Second.

Now, while he said surrounding, he was actually talking about Charles the Second. And he said, she is one of the six surrounding Charles the Second. Now, while he said surrounding, he was actually talking about Charles the Second. And I said surrounding and one of the six, I don't know. And I didn't even know who Charles the Second was. I thought of Bonnie Prince Charlie. And as I came out of it he said, remember this. It will help people, remember this. And the next day I went to library, and I looked up, I knew it was England, and I finally found Charles the Second. And I turned to book and it said that he was a rake and a rogue and that he was simply no good, so to speak. I thought, Well, I couldn't have ever known a person like this. Not every case, he was just the same. Now Edgar Cayce was just the same. You get what I mean. Jim? mistaken. That's the kind of a person I was then. And then I read about Charles I, his father. And this was a very saintly man. I said, oh, he surely meant Charles I. One of

the six, how would you look up? What did he mean? So I simply put it out of my mind. And about six months later, seven months later, there was a Leonardo da Vinci collection down at the museum. And I was with a little girl who's a friend of mine, a little Chinese girl, Susanna Kim. And we went down. I don't often have hunches. And just as we started to go into the museum, I said, Susanna, I'm going to see myself. And I never felt like this before. I know it. I know it in my bones. A very funny kind of feeling. So all afternoon we walked from one Leonardo da Vinci picture to the next, to the next painting, to the next. I saw nothing. And I said, isn't it odd, Susanna? I never had such a feeling in all my life. I was just absolutely certain. And it was ten minutes to five. And I said, ten minutes to five. So Susanna said, let's go in the Marion Davis room and then let's leave. They hadn't turned on the lights yet. It was in the winter. And we started through the Marion Davis room. And just as we did, way in the back of the room, I saw a little

tiny painting. And I started to cry. And I walked to this painting. I stood there and I cried and I cried. I couldn't stop. And as I looked at the painting, I knew everything about this girl. I knew how she died. I knew all the circumstances. I knew how she died. I knew all the sorrows of her life. I knew everything that she suffered. And I knew a very unhappy thing. I knew that she died of venereal disease. All these things I knew without being able to tell anyone how I knew. And then I looked down and I saw her name and it said Mistress of Charles II. Well, my husband was always very skeptical about reincarnation. And especially to tell him that you were once a girl who actually had your painting done. I knew he'd never believe it. And I went down to the library and tried to get some material on her. And there was just a little bit mentioned in one of the books on Charles II. And I brought it home. And that night I was in washing dishes. I'd read the whole book right through that afternoon. And Gene came in. He said, honey, have you read this book? And I said, yes,

I've read it. He said, well, have you read about so-and-so? And I said, yes, I've read it. And he looked at me and he said, well, he said, he said, I have to believe in reincarnation. There can't be two of them. What I had done was to tell all the little things, you know, she would forget to comb her hair, she'd have her dress too low and not know it, all kind of little things that had carried over. And that was my own experience. And what happened, in my experience, when I went to Virginia Beach, I had another dream and I knew who Charles II was, at least I thought I did. And I wrote to this man who is the minister and told him, he said it was ridiculous. And this, I came back to Los Angeles and he told me how ridiculous it was. And a year later. He told me, he said, Jessica, I am that evil man and you are that woman. And out of that, he wrote two books on the Cayce work, which otherwise wouldn't have been written. So that was my own experience. Shall I tell the little short thing about prophecy, Lee? Lee wanted

me to tell about two of the outstanding prophecies that Edgar Cayce gave. Now, one was on earthquakes and one was on Russia.

When Edgar Cayce was, was put in jail. Because he was supposed to be a medium. And the case was thrown out of court. This happened in Chicago. Being such a religious man, he was terribly unhappy about this. And on the train back to Virginia Beach, he had a dream. He dreamed that it was the year 2104 and that he found himself in a cigar-shaped plane. And that he was a little boy, and it seemed that he remembered everything that had led up to this. He had been born again in Nebraska. He said, Nebraska, will you marry me? And he said, I have a son. And he said, I will, and he said to him, I will. And he said, okay, I'm going to make you a son, and he said, I'm going to make you a daughter. Because he was a son. And he said, okay. But that was when He said Nebraska was the Seacoast State at that time, 2104. He had remembered that he was Edgar Cayce. He had known that there were readings in Virginia Beach, Virginia, in a vault, and that they could be discovered. And he had told his parents, and apparently they had contacted scientists, he said,

and these men were interested in the possibility of reincarnation. A great many people were interested in it at that time, 2104. And they had taken him in a cigar-shaped plane. And in the dream, he said, they went over many different states, and parts of them were water. And they went over New York City, and it had been razed as if by either an atom bomb or by fire, but this had been a very recent thing, and they were rebuilding the city. And they finally came to Virginia, and these records were found. And then he had a reading on this dream. Edgar Cayce didn't have many dreams, so I don't think he ever had another reading that he remembered. He never had another reading on a dream. And the reading said that he would be able, this was actually going to happen, that in the future, that he would be born in Nebraska, and he would be able to remember his past lives. And then after that, they had a number of readings on prophecy. There's a whole book, if anybody's interested, you can write to Virginia Beach.

It's called, Am I My Brother's Keeper? And read the prophecies. And many, many of them have already come true. But one of them, one of them was on what's to happen in California. Beginning about in 1934, people would say to Edgar Cayce in 1924, should I go to California? And very often he would say no. He'd tell them to go someplace else. Or he'd tell them, if you go to California, go into the hills, go into the high country. Now this was a long time before anybody was thinking about San Andreas Fault. And finally, someone said, why do you suggest that we do not move to California? And he said, simply, that San Andreas Fault, and he said where it was in Lower California, that it was weakening. This was way back in 1924. And that in a matter of time, Southern California could have the greatest earthquake that it had ever had. Now he went right on and said that prophecies were made to be broken, that prayer was the strongest force in the universe, and that it did not necessarily have to be true. And he also said that when this earthquake occurred,

that there would be a warning of 90 days, that Mount Vesuvius and Mount Pele would erupt simultaneously, and that 90 days after that, from this eruption, that San Andreas Fault would weaken, and that there would be a big earthquake here, to such an extent that it could even be greater than San Francisco. And again he said that it did not have to happen, that prayer could change this thing. Well, it's interesting because, John, I've been collecting the stories from the, from Citizen News, and some of you have probably read them, and just recently there was a scientist from Palomar who said that San Andreas Fault is weakening, and we could have an earthquake tomorrow, and we could have one in 10 years, or it could even be further in the future, in 50 years. Cayce said that prayer would change this condition. But that's one of the prophecies that he made so long ago before anyone ever talked about San Andreas Fault. And there have been a great many, a great many repercussions, references to it in the last few years.

The other thing that he said was, they asked about Russia, and this was during the war, what was to happen in Russia. And he gave a very strange answer. He said that in time, that out of Russia was to come the hope of the world, not in communism, because communism would be no more. But out of Russia would come the hope of the world in the brotherhood of man. And that the very people who had been killed under Stalin and some other dictators who were to come in the future, that these people would be coming back into Russia. And these people would bring Christianity into Russia. And so, once again, we would have a great country that was a Christian nation. That it would not begin here, that we would not go over there and act as missionaries, but it would become, from the very heart of Russia. That these people were very warm in spirit and very warm in nature and very much like our own people. And then he mentioned the year 1984 as the beginning of the downfall of communism. That this thing would come to the people within Russia.

And these were the two prophecies that he gave. Again and again, he said, that whatever we were, or whatever we wanted to be, that always we were related to God. Whether we were, or Khrushchev, Khrushchev hadn't come, I think he said Stalin, or whether we were a saint. We still have a relationship to God. And we have come into the body with a purpose. We have come in to do a work and we've come in to learn a lesson. And we're all on our way out. We're all on our way to another world or to another solar system that's much different from this one. And someone said, how do you know that you've lived before? How can you know that any of these things are true? And he said, the heart knoweth, the soul never forgetteth. And it's very much as was said by Christopher Fry, if time and space are one, then surely we are a part of them. Thank you. Does one have a choice of being reincarnated

or staying where one is? And where is one? And making progress there? In some philosophies, they give a certain time, a certain time period for incarnations. I know long ago, I was in a group, they said every 144 years. In case he did not do this, the only time that he ever made a definite statement about incarnations was that those who lived at the time of Jesus and who had known him had determined to reincarnate every 34 years because this is at the end of an age and because it's greatly needed. For the most part, you can determine when you want to come back, if I understand the readings. And where are you? You're in another plane of consciousness. He would say in the environs of Venus, in the environs of Mercury, and so on. That, for instance, I can remember one reading, a child died who was greatly in need of love. The child had been left by its mother and it actually died of the lack of love. And in finding itself out of the body, it went immediately, the readings said, to the realms of Venus because the realms, I think he means,

like the realms of Earth, would not be, on the Earth or in the Earth, but outside of the Earth, in the realms or in the atmosphere. He said that there was a duplicate world, so to speak, as I explained a while ago. And if he died at this moment, that we wouldn't know it because we would be in this other world. And you can stay as long as you want. Coming back is a matter of choice. Will you please explain how we select our parents? According to the readings, the soul does select the parents. And they do it for many different reasons. For instance, if you've had a very karmic life, Casey once said in a reading that you've never gone to fast until you've had a feast. And he meant by that that in some life, if you have a great deal of happiness, if you're a Jackie Kennedy, so to speak, and you have everything in the world, it may be that you want to come back and meet a great deal of karma. You're rather prepared for it. You have had the best things of life. Now, what exactly was the question? Please explain. How we select our parents.

Then you would select the parents usually because they had been with you before, because you were attracted to them, or you can select a parent because you are karmically attracted and must come back. The sad thing about if you murder someone, according to the Casey readings, and you do it deliberately, I'm sure no one has or will, but that you are drawn to this person and you must work it out. Very often you have to come back as this person's child, now this is a karmic relationship. You are drawn. You have very little choice. But usually we choose parents because we want to be born to do a certain type of work. The most interesting reading that I know is Casey found a young woman when he was giving a lecture at the YWCA in New York City, and he looked at her, and he did have conscious clairvoyance also, and he knew that she was his little sister who had died when she was three years old. His own little sister in this life. And he asked her to come to Virginia Beach and have a reading, and she did, and the reading bore it out.

And the reading said that this child had chosen to die at the age of three because the father had begun to drink, and that it had waited a 34-year period to come back into the body and had carefully chosen its parents. So apparently usually we do have choice. Where can one find out what green symbols mean, such as hands, faces, in one instance digging under leaves and decomposed hands and corpses? Well, this sounds like a symbolic dream. A superconscious dream is the memory of an actual out-of-the-body experience. A symbolic dream must be broken down according to Casey and also according to Freud and Jung. Jung calls it amplification. Freud calls it association. By what does this mean to me? Well, you would say, someone asked me just now to explain one dream, a symbolic dream. And I'll just take one minute to do it. Seven years ago, when I first started to work with dreams, I went on a very strict diet and lost 40 pounds. In fact, I went on a 40-day water test. And for a whole year, I stayed exactly at size 12, and I was so proud of myself.

And Jean and I took a trip to Canada, and it was very hot. And on the way, my fault is that I drink Coca-Cola about six a day, 100 calories apiece. I'm a Coca-holic. I tell the girls at prison. And on the way to Canada, I started to drink Cokes again. I hadn't had one for a year. And when I came back, I told the girls in my class, I said, you know, I'm having a, Casey says, you never have a dream that means nothing. And I said, I certainly am having one that means nothing. And they said, what? And I said, well, every night lately, I've been dreaming that I meet an old man. He said, an old man is wisdom, your higher self. I meet an old man, and the old man says, Jessica, if you don't stop drinking Cokes, you're going to the Broadway. I said, that's so silly. I go to the Broadway every Friday night. And one day my husband came in and he looked at me. I was still drinking Cokes. And he said, honey, you're getting to be the broadest broad I ever saw. Now this is a symbol. I never said, what does this mean to me, a Broadway? But you say, what does this mean to me?

I did a TV show on dreams, and they kept shooting questions at me. And one man said, well, what would it mean if I dreamed of cold feet? Well, if you dreamed of cold feet, it wouldn't mean cold feet. It would mean you're afraid of something. But you say, what does this mean to me? I might dream of a red rose. And perhaps if my mother died, I might have seen a red rose on her coffin. To me, that would mean death and sorrow. You might have been married and held a red rose in your hands. It would mean something entirely different. So break your dreams down. I would think that this particular dream about the hands, it may have something to do with work, something decomposed, something that's in the past, something that you haven't carried through. I would think about it along those lines. But what does this mean to me? What was the dream stimulus? A dream stimulus is whatever happens to cause you to have the dream. If you're worried about some particular problem, that can be the dream stimulus. Casey once had a dream. He was planning on going on a journey,

and that was the dream stimulus. They were planning on leaving, and he was concerned about the journey. And he dreamed that he took the journey, and he went up a very rough road and so on. He did have a reading on the dream, and it said the dream stimulus was the journey, but he had dreamed about his own journey through life, and he'd come out in a smooth place by a lake. So your dream stimulus is what brings about the dream. It will have some relationship to your dream. And dreams are supposed to answer our problems in the present, according to Casey. This doesn't specifically tie into our subsidy night, but it does with our unit here, and also, I understand, with even the readings. Have you had any contact with space people? I haven't personally. Edgar Casey once had an experience that may have been with a flying saucer. He was out in his garden, and he was working, and it was just before World War II. And he looked up, and he saw this bright, beautiful object, and he saw it as if it were flaming red or a chariot of fire.

He had no way of understanding it. And it simply swooped low over him. He saw it as an actual thing. And he went into the house, and he then said he was terribly nervous and shaken, and he'd had no other contact than just seeing the object. And he told Hugh then that he felt that this meant that war was to come, and he would not see his sons again, and this actually happened. Now, he mentions many times other planes of experience, and that other planets are inhabited, but this is the only reading that I'm aware of where he actually... this wasn't a reading, where he actually saw what may have been a flying object. Do you give readings yourself? No, ma'am. No, I don't. Due to my husband's sudden death and difficult business entanglements, I find myself at a loss to adjust my life and meet the decisions I am faced with. Can you advise me? Thank you. Well, this is one time I would turn to my dreams in one way, get all the practical advice that you possibly can. But also turn within. Prayer, meditation, and look to your dreams.

It's very possible that you will have some guidance in your dreams. Someone was just telling me a few minutes ago of a contact this person had with someone who'd gone on before. And if you do look to your dreams and expect to have a contact, it's very possible that you may. When we start life as a cell, how can we have lived before? We must have inherited any resemblance to people of the past. We do inherit resemblance to our parents. We certainly do. And we do begin life as a cell. The readings say that the body, that the spirit often does not inhabit the body to as much as three weeks after birth. That it can inhabit the body before birth. I know that this doesn't bear out what Dianetics teaches and so on. But especially in the case of a very advanced soul, according to the readings, that they wait to see that the baby gets there, that everything is all right, and then they choose to enter the body. And this is often true of adopted children who are adopted very young, according to the readings. That the child waits until it's fairly well certain,

a three-week period, so to speak, who is going to adopt the child. And they choose their parents in that way, although being adopted is karma. Our real life is the life of the spirit. The body is not our real life. If I understand the readings correctly, that this is only an interim, this is like a dark room, and that we are much more aware and that we have much greater knowledge of ourselves when we are out of the body. And the fact that the body is the physical cell, I'm not a scientist and I can't explain that. He simply said that we choose to occupy the body sometimes at the moment of birth and sometimes after. I can only answer you in that way. Do you think that all ill health is karma or is some of it caused by a deficient diet? And can we forgive ourselves most of our karmic troubles or are there some we just have to stand? Casey said that the law of grace was much stronger than the law of karma and that nothing originates outside of ourselves, that the problem that we have to face comes from within ourselves.

If a child is born blind, we may know that the child chose this. I mean, chose it before he came into the body. This is something that he has to meet, apparently. Can we forgive our own karma? Or is it something that we just have to stand? Well, for instance, if you're born into one race that you don't choose to be, if you're born a negro, for instance, this is something you're going to have to stand all your life because this is also karma, according to the readings, depending upon how much karma that you meet. According to Casey, race is something that we do choose, that you might even choose to be in this race, but if you suffer a great deal because you're in a minority group, it's very likely, if the readings are true, that you've been in another group and you have persecuted those of that race. You can't change your parents. You can't change your race. This is something you're going to have to stand. You're going to have to go through. According to Casey, God can change almost everything else and it's a matter of forgiveness of ourselves and love

because, as the Casey readings said also, that the love is the final step of the old soul. Love is our way out of this planet. Does the Association for Research and Enlightenment publish any books on their findings? Do you allow others to join your own study group? I'd be very happy to have anyone who's here coming to our study group just give me your name and address and I'll send you an announcement. I have a group on Saturday afternoon and there are other groups. There are several books that we have that you could... In fact, my husband brought in a couple of books. Gene brought in a few books tonight. One is on Gods of the Door, Life After Death, and one is Many Mansions by Gina Seminara and one is World Within. Those are the outstanding books. Gods of the Door is only a dollar book. I think he also has some 50-cent pamphlets there. And I have a 50-cent copy of There is a River and I'll ask my husband to bring those in and put them on the back table if anyone's interested. You're very welcome to join the group and if you want any information on the ARE,

you simply write to A.R.E, Association for Research and Enlightenment, Virginia Beach, Virginia, and I would suggest that you write to Gladys Turner and she will send you a list of all their literature and she'll be very happy to give you any information that you like. I might say at this time that I had hoped to have had at least $5.00 worth of the Pocky editions about Edgar Cayce men and Miracles. And I had canvassed the various bookstores here and they're all sold out. And also Thomas Segru's book, the Pocky edition, There is a River. I couldn't find any at all and so I sent back and was hoping that perhaps by special delivery and I airmailed it, but I didn't receive any word today so evidently there's difficulty even back there on the Pocky edition because they're only, I think, 60 cents. And I just wanted to have those available but perhaps we may have them at the next meeting. If so, they'll be on the book table. Has anyone tried getting radio engines and transmediums or writing mediums together to see if the radioactivity

between the medium's source of communication and the medium could be discovered mechanically and mechanically recorded? Well, this I don't know. Edgar Cayce once had a co-reading with Eileen Garrett, who I think is probably America's finest psychic, considered so by most of the scientific people, and she gave, she does not believe in reincarnation. The interesting thing was that her guide, she has six of them, Halaliel, came through with six incarnations for Edgar Cayce. Now that's the only time I know. I don't know, I couldn't answer that particular question. Did anyone ever receive a communication from Houdini and collect the money he pocketed before his death? Details. I don't know about this. I understand that Arthur Ford

[01:41:48] Questions and closing discussion

has a very fine scientific gift and that he was, Marguerite Harmon Breaux, who wrote about Edgar Cayce, the Miracle Man of Virginia Beach, also has authored a book with Arthur Ford. Arthur Ford, I don't, Arthur Ford, I don't remember it now, but apparently for a long time when he was drinking so, he was an alcoholic, that he was no longer psychic. He was never, he was never psychic. He was making up. He was putting on an act. But apparently, he's no longer an alcoholic and according to Marguerite Harmon Breaux, whom I believe, she was a missionary for many, many years. She's now second in head of Harper Brothers. Apparently, he does have a very real gift and he has said that he has contacted Houdini. I don't know. I don't think he received the reward. I don't know about this. Did Cayce ever mention the etheric body of the planet and its use as the telepathic and energy link of Earth's humanity? Oh, such scientific questions and I'm such a simple person. I think when he was talking about the realms of consciousness, that he was actually talking

about the etheric body of the planet. That's a very good term and I'm glad that you've given it to me. When he talked about the realms of Venus, the realms of Mercury, that we go to Mercury when, you know, for intellectual advancement and so on. I think that's exactly what he meant when he said that he was talking about the realms of Venus, the realms of Mercury, that we go to Mercury when, you know, for intellectual advancement and so on. That's exactly what he was talking about but the final part of your question and it's used in the telepathic and energy line on Earth's humanity. He did say on telepathy that there is no such thing as time. He said that in sleep that we're not only aware of the subconscious mind of everyone whom we're close to in this Earth but we're also aware telepathically within any other realm of experience within our own solar system. So, perhaps that might end. That's the question. What does the reading record about premature babies? Are their souls reincarnated or is it a lesson for the parents in past karma? Second, is there a reason

an individual refuses any medical care or treatment for a chronic illness when there are known medical cures available? Well, about the baby I think you must mean that if the baby is dead upon birth. Is that right? Well, there is a type of karma where a family is supposed they choose from the other side to meet this that they will have a child and the child will die simply to learn the lesson of love. It may have in some other lifetime they may have not chosen to have children they may have not actually loved a child and this would be in the form of a lesson that they would learn and this would be something that would relate to karma about the person who would refuse to die and perhaps as your Casey said that if you need a medical doctor by all means have one but there are also healings and other realms of experience that there is scientific healing there is mental healing there is medical healing and he said if you need a dose of castor oil it may be that this person has no fear of death I wouldn't know it would be an individual matter he may just not be afraid

to die or he may think that he is going to get well anyway so many times with cancer cases with regard to the prophecy where is Mount Pele someone asked me that apollo Jean where is Mount Pele or does anyone else know I could does anyone here know yes that's it I couldn't recall at the moment it's Mount Pele and Mount Vesuvius to erupt simultaneously are all of our earth well all of your earth lives are on this planet he said that all souls were created in the beginning of time all souls are the same age many souls chose to go to other planets within this solar system and in other solar systems and that for the most part we especially if we are emotional people that's one of the keys that he gave and this was during the time of the Greeks in the time of the so called gods and goddesses he said they were actually children of a king and they were the king made statues Zeus made statues of his children and these particular souls chose to incarnate but usually we incarnate in the earth or we incarnate in some other planet or some other solar system but we keep evolving the way out

of this and so one of the last I would like to say this one thing how to get out of here is just to love and to realize the brotherhood of man and one of the readings where a woman was on her last life or where she actually could have gone to Arcturus and had chosen to come back a case you remember was very orthodox and he said this woman was a dance hall girl in 1849 but she was so filled with love that she'd become a mother figure to so many people in her last life had been a nun Sister Agatha Mary in her last life and had given so much love that she could have gone on to Arcturus but she chose to come back into the body to help where I work I am in line for promotion before long why do I dream that I am being told by my boss that I am being promoted the next day well the next day is some tomorrow very soon I Freud would say this is wish fulfillment I don't think so but I'm actually dreaming in the future and there is no time that when we dream we are aware of a lifetime a thousand years ago or ten thousand are aware of three or four weeks in the future

the readings said that many of our dreams are prophetic so I would think you're really going to get your raise or whatever it is that you want the what is the name of the weakened fault in Southern California what is the name of the volcanic that will erupt at the same time and the last one as whom is Jesus reincarnated we were just talking a lady over here said that her geology teacher had talked so much about the San Andreas fault and it has been weakening and Casey mentioned this in 1924 it was Mount Pali which we just mentioned someone said it was in the Caribbean and it was also Mount Vesuvius and they are to erupt simultaneously if it happens and it would be in a 90 day period according to Casey he said prayer could change even this and about Jesus according to the readings that was his last incarnation I can give you his main incarnations here very very briefly he was first Amelius at the time of Atlantis he was later Adam and according to the readings the idea of the twin soul is true that Eve was eternally a part of him that she separated from the world

and she was his mother Mary his other outstanding incarnations were as Zend in Persia when he taught the Zendasta religion as Melchizedek who was never born and who never died I believe as Enoch in the Bible who walked with God as Joseph the son of Rachel and Jacob and he almost made it at that time his pride as Joshua who wrote the book of Job a Persian scribe as Joshua who led Moses and finally as Jesus and in each one of these the people who were drawn to him were also those who were drawn to Jesus that they had come in as groups to work it out Jesus was his final incarnation the readings say that the virgin birth is true can one reach a high enough spiritual state on this plane so that he will not have to reincarnate yes you certainly can many people probably in this room are on their last line I was interested especially in looking up the readings of people who were what he called Arcturian souls and he says the man who was so much a little boy and the woman who was so much a little girl and who had a great depth these were some of the keys to an Arcturian soul they were never aware

of it it's never the person who goes around and says well I'm so spiritual now you look up to me this is not it do you remember how Jesus despised the Pharisees for this very thing that it was always the sincerity that they had and the trust that they have in other people and the little girl and the little boy quality and he said in many of the readings when people were told that they were on their last line they were told that he would say we will magnify the faults we will magnify the virtues we will minimize the faults meaning that they still had faults so that you do not become perfect he said that perfection was not attained in the body and he gave many physiological reasons and I can't go into that I don't know physiology well enough but he said that perfection is attained in other realms but actually when we love enough there was one reading where the woman his wife or his mistress Pompeia and she had actually had a reading one of the few times a person of prominence did in this life she had a back injury and she walked terribly bent over and yet he said

that she was on her last life or it could be made so that she was paying karma because she had laughed at and persecuted the Christians and had been responsible for their death in the arena for many of them but that since that time that she had turned toward the light and toward loving her fellow man and it was in this life she was working with several orphanages and so on that she could make this her last earth experience and he said that Arcturus was the next port of call and you could go on to Arcturus say you graduate from college it doesn't mean that you know everything in all the books that would be impossible but that you could choose to come back and help your fellow man or that you could choose to go on how do we manage to return to our body so fast when the alarm clock goes off is there any meaning to floating through space in dreams well about the alarm clock I've often wondered that actually you remember that we may get to our body sometime before the alarm clock goes off long before I knew about the Casey work Angela Morgan who was in

the Point Laureate I believe of America and she said that she wanted to get to her body before the alarm clock goes off long before I knew about the Casey work Angela Morgan who was in the Point Laureate I believe of America she gave a talk over at a religious science group in Riverside where I was the secretary to Dan Custer and I remember she was so happy on this particular night she had lost her mother about a year before and she said that very morning she had been awakened not awake that she had found herself floating and she was coming to her apartment and she stood at the doorway and looked at her body on the bed she also was aware of the time of the alarm clock but this was the only time that this had happened and she could remember having been with her mother according to these scientific experiments that they're doing on dreams we dream the last one-fifth of sleep so I would think that since many of our dreams are symbolic that many times we're already in the body when we start to dream although Casey said we could be out that's a cute question

I came in now this is a cute question too rather it's a statement I have no specific question at this time but I want you to just keep on talking that's priceless what did the apostle Paul mean when he said whether in this body or out of the body I know not such a one caught up to the third heaven and shown things which are unlawful to speak about on earth well I believe he meant exactly what we've been talking about whether in the body or out of the body surely sometimes you have had an experience or you've been in a dentist chair someplace where you've been out temporarily in an operation and you come back and this is so real that you don't know whether you were there in the body or out of the body I think that this was just a statement unlawful could be a mistranslation I don't know I don't believe that it's unlawful to talk about these things from a spiritual standpoint and Paul apparently had great knowledge of being out of the body and he's you know in this particular statement it would seem so that the revelation written by John the Beloved is a spiritual book

and most of it relates to out of the body experiences why do I have this arthritis what in my thoughts am I holding that is wrong well my husband who is so close to me he has arthritis too you see there could be many possibilities it could be diet it could be any number of things that would relate to this life I know that one of the readings is that you should not eat tomatoes I don't know why if you have arthritis you should not eat white sugar and not white flour that's all I can remember at the moment I only remember one type of karma and it doesn't seem it was in a very bad case of arthritis and the person had been a minister in his past life and had been very stiff necked I mean you know literally he wouldn't he just couldn't bend and he couldn't give and in this life he was reading it and Tom wouldn't mind it being told Tom had arthritis so badly that he couldn't move anything but his fingers at the end of his life and the stiff necked neckedness or whatever you want to call it it came over but I would think that this would be an extreme case remember everything too

is on a mental plane and forgiveness is the main way to get out of a disease or any other difficulty is it possible to pronosticate one's own future accurately how can our subconscious enter in well sometimes if our subconscious doesn't enter in I have a friend who's quite psychic and we were talking just yesterday and I said Geraldine I said you always telling me that this is going to happen and that's going to happen and it happens just as you say now she's having trouble about which man to marry why don't you just tell me who you're going to marry and she says oh Jessica I can't she says in dreams according to Casey every major event of our lives is dreams it doesn't have to happen we can change it if you dream of some terrible accident she said this could be given to you so you would change it you wouldn't go to the place or something of that nature but that every major event what could be in the future is dreams how can you determine when you have doubts whether a dream is an actual experience out it's something that as mark twain said this is the most real thing that has ever happened to me

it's something that you bring back in great detail it's something that happened out of the body it could be a communication with a loved one it could be like jesse lasky's experience it could be something that's very real otherwise if you have many symbols in your dreams everything can be a symbol why then work with the symbol the last three have been answered before and i have read a few questions here i'd like to first ask do the aggregation readings reveal anything about the pyramids yes they do um it uh they say that there is one more room yet to be discovered in the left paw of a pyramid and it will be discovered and he said the 1950 1958 period now i don't know what he means by that he also speaks of the earthquake coming in the 1958 period he once mentioned that you from 1958 to 1998 for all the people uh in the world it's a period of testing that if you fail in these 40 years so to speak you're going to be working on personally some particular problem that you've worked on many times before it's going to be tough going and if you fail

it's it's uh you'll just have to do it all over again that's all but it is a time of testing but he talked about this a room being discovered in the pyramid in the 1950 1958 period now whether he means within a 10-year period or whether he means in that 40-year period i don't know did he say what will be discovered yes a room in the left paw under the left paw and i have a friend of a young woman only 26 who went to egypt and who stayed there one year she lived at the ywca for only 24 a month and a little uh japanese girl went with her and they moved heaven and earth to try to get permission to dig time that this pyramid were was built were now in the body that many of them did not have readings

and many of them were attracted to egypt and attracted to the pyramid and some of them would be on hand when this room was discovered do the edgar casey readings reveal anything about the atlantean civilization which many people say did not exist the edgar casey readings have three volumes that thick on atlantis they say very definitely it existed but especially the people in california are atlanteans uh that they are here now because they are advanced souls that they are drawn into lower cal southern california in groups that they are the only people probably in the united states or even in the world who are ready for certain teachings that are coming through and i would think that what some of us is studying just that kind of a thing uh atlantis was much more advanced in some ways than we are and uh in other ways they were not so far advanced they were very occult and they chose to enslave others through their cult powers and they had to meet this in the body and they met it here in america many centuries later and they met it by

being enslaved themselves uh he has volumes on atlantis will you say a few words about auras what they are and what they reveal well edgar casey saw auras uh consciously only once a year probably i see an aura and i'm always very happy when i see it uh he said that everyone has an aura he was aware of auras from the time he was a little boy uh he said that blue i believe blue and pink were spiritual and so is white and so is yellow that dark blue is the student that the person who's on the path and studying very hard that green can also be that gray a person he was always aware when a person was ill because of the grayness of their aura and also of a possibility of death because he didn't see an aura he had an interesting experience in new york city at macy's department store many years ago he i was going to get on the elevator and he looked into the elevator and he saw nothing it just looked so dark and he didn't realize i'm not seeing auras and he stepped back and he let the elevator go on and it went up and it crashed and what had happened he simply didn't

see the aura now whether it was fated that these people died i don't know he didn't realize but it was so dark and i once was secretary for a unity ministry uh dr nichols is still in san bernardino and dr nichols said that he has a plane from england to america and when he was coming over here to go to unity school and he stepped in the plane and he was amazed he thought oh my they don't have any light in here it is so dark and he got out and then he realized that no one had an aura and he hurried back and he told the ticket agent he said do you know something's going to happen to this plane no one has an aura and the man laughed at him but he canceled his flight and he said no one has an aura and he said no one has a light and the plane went down over the atlantic so apparently an aura is the very real thing there is a little book called aras and you can write to virginia beach for 50 cents and get it and it's one of the few books i think the only book that edgar casey ever wrote himself that is the last question we will get those uh pamphlets books uh because from the

questions i'm sure there are many people here who would like to further their study by reading these books at this time i'd just like to thank all of you for coming and thank mrs jessica madigan for giving a wonderful talk and on this question answer period especially because i think it has helped a lot of people here so again jessica thank you very much the meeting is adjourned and we'll notify you of our next meeting thank you