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1966 November 29th Klca Bob Grant Interviews Dan Fry Larry Chatterton Lost Atlantis Shall Rise P168

Understanding Audio Transcript

Recording structure

• [00:00] KLCA Bob Grant interviews Dan Fry
• [01:00:00] Questions of credibility and the White Sands incident
• [01:20:00] Transition to Unit 15 meeting segment
• [01:30:00] Larry Chatterton on Lost Atlantis Shall Rise
• [02:10:00] Closing discussion

Hover your cursor over the sentence to see the timestamp.

[00:00] KLCA Bob Grant interviews Dan Fry

Now we have Dr. Daniel Fry, who has a little book, The White Sands Incident, he calls it. And I've heard of Dr. Fry for quite some time. As a matter of fact, I suspect that he has some devotees in the area, because for quite some time people have been after me to have Daniel Fry on the program. Are you? I haven't been, actually, Bob. I have put on a number of programs in the Los Angeles area in the last ten years. And usually there's a certain amount of interest shown. I didn't know that there was any advance request. You're perfectly candid, because you go around and claim you took a space ride.

You don't look like an oddball, you don't talk like an oddball, you don't write like an oddball. Part of the situation, I think it was best summed up by one of our generals fairly early in the... He pointed out that there had been many credible observers of relatively incredible things.

The person is a perfectly credible observer, a professional man, and his statements are accepted everywhere until something happens to him that's totally unacceptable or impossible, and then he ceases to be credible. What about the credibility of Dr. of what, sir? This is a Ph.D., Dr. Actually. It's a title that was given by St. Andrews University in London. That's always something that comes up first. I've never... I've never taken any credit for this. I did write a thesis called Steps to the Stars, which again made some statements that were incredible at the time they were made, but during the geophysical year, some of them were proven to be... This university thought somebody should recognize this fact in some way, and so this is the way they did it. I've never taken any credit for it. There has been controversy over the value of such a degree. I've never placed any on it at all. Some of the things that I have done...

They stand on their own feet, regardless of any degree that's given by anyone. The only thing I say is I do have the degree. It was not a purchased thing. I don't think you could get a degree from St. Andrews for a million dollars if it was given for what they considered good cost. Of course, this doesn't really... It is. St. Andrews... Well, here is a little... Because you're saying university, and my information says they call it college. Well, it's a university. Actually, it's something like Notre Dame. Notre Dame, it was... Notre Dame, you know, is actually a church. It's a church university. And if you say, oh, this is a church university, unless you mention Notre Dame, everyone says, oh, then it can't have any significance. Nobody detracts from a degree from Notre Dame simply because it's an ecumenical university, or it was a church to begin with. Well, I would dare say that people have heard of Notre Dame,

and they... I don't believe anybody's heard of St. Andrews. I'm very... Well, it doesn't have... It doesn't have a good football team, and this is probably why... You don't, actually. Have you got it for writing Steps to the Stars? Yes. Well, what... In Steps to the Stars, what do you say? Well, if you'd like me to recite the book... Oh, hardly, hardly. But, I mean, what is the thrust of it? Well, actually, it is a book of two... The purpose of the book is to reduce some of our concepts of cosmology to understandable to the average person. Almost all of our science today is expressed in mathematics, in mathematical terms. And this is fine if you happen to be a mathematician, but there are lots of people who would like to know a little bit more about the universe about them, but who haven't had the opportunity to take mathematic courses to the extent that they could understand the manner in which this knowledge is usually presented.

This was simply an attempt to reduce some of these concepts to statements that would be understandable by the average person, whether or not he was mathematically oriented. All right. Now, it says also that you... What is that? I know Aerojet General, but... Crescent Engineering and Research is an instrument company. It is now, by the way, Crescent Technology. Their main office was located in El Monte on Peck Road, 5440 North Peck Road in El Monte. They have now built some new buildings down the beachway. What did you do for Aerojet General? I principally designed instruments, smallweights, small instruments for measurement of quantities which couldn't be measured by any instrument on the market at the time. I also set up equipment at White Sands Proving Grounds, did all the wiring of the new test bay there for testing of rocket motion. Well, how in the world... Now, do you still maintain that you took a ride in a flying saucer?

No, I have never said that I took a ride in a flying saucer. I have said that I have entered, I have made a short test hop in a sampling device. I do say... I say that all of the best evidence indicates that it was not created anywhere on this planet. Why don't you and the book get together and decide what you want to say, Dr. Fry, because your chapter 2, page 29 of your book says, I take a ride in a flying saucer. Yes, I did not write that heading for the book, unfortunately. Oh, really? There are several statements made in the book which I did not, unfortunately did not write and of course have been criticized for this. This was the editor and publisher's idea of attracting more public attention. However, I don't deny the fact of this because what does the word flying saucer mean? I mean, after all, I object to it only because it's an indefinite term. The terms that I used were definite. It would seem to me that on some of your earlier interviews,

which go back a number of years, you found that it was... you thought it was tenable to say you took a ride in a flying saucer. Now it's dawning on you how ludicrous it sounds, so now you're equivocating. No, I'm not. I have never said this, Bob. I've never used the term flying saucer. A more precise definite term was available. All right, give me a more precise definite term. A sampling device. In other words, somebody comes from God knows how many light years away and comes to the Earth and comes in a sampling device? No, there was no individual of any sort aboard this so far as I know. How did they get there? Any more than there was aboard the little gadget that we put on the moon here a while back to dig little trenches on the moon. I mean, of course... Of course, and if there were an intelligent life on the moon and they were to observe this little thing and report it, they would probably be considered just as crazy as I or anyone else.

It was a device being used at that time to take samples of Earth's atmosphere from various isolated points on the sun. And what happened to this device, this sampling device? It was eventually returned to the craft which apparently was controlling it. Now, how did you happen to board it and do you still maintain you took a ride in it or is this also another fabrication on the part of... No, this is... This is strictly correct. Uh-huh. And what did you do? You got on this sampling device which was, what, round? Was it shaped like a saucer? Not like a saucer, no. No, it was a cop-oblate spheroid. What does that mean to... That means a sphere that is somewhat flattened at the top and bottom. A sphere that is somewhat flattened at the top and bottom. How did you happen to get on it and why did you go alone? Well, I went alone because it didn't happen to anyone else in the vicinity of the time... Isn't that convenient?

Isn't it convenient? Isn't it convenient that you stumbled on this thing when no one was around? All of you, all of you are the same, whether it's Dr. Fry from St. Andrews College or, you know, Joe Blow. You're all the same. I admire your temerity. Do you make money off of this thing? No, I don't. Actually, it costs me quite a little bit every year. Well, what is your goal? I'm certainly not making any money from this program. Yeah, well, how come you came down here at, you know, 8, 8.30 in the morning and so forth? What is it you... want to achieve? I don't really want to achieve anything. I do feel that people who are interested in this subject have a right to whatever information, actual information may be available on it. How incredulous people are, no matter how sarcastic they are, no matter how skeptical they are, there is some hard and precise information which is available on the subject. There is some logic and reason in the subject which people who haven't approached it may think,

does not exist, and I think people have a right to this, if they are interested. I wouldn't walk across the street to convince anyone that either this book is facts or that the devices themselves are facts.

But if people are interested and want to know what facts are available, I think they have a right to it. All right, now we'll try to deal with those facts. You said a moment ago that this was a sampling device, that there were no digging inside it, a door open or...

Eventually, an opening was created, yes. I've never met... I don't know. I didn't at that time at least meet the gentleman or what have you that operated the craft. By remote control, it was open, no? Yes. Uh-huh. You got inside? That's right. And then what happened? Were you airborne almost immediately? Well, not almost immediately. There was probably... Why did you fly?

Did you go up? About 30 to 35 miles. This was the statement of the operator. I had the only way I could... The statement of the operator? What, was it coming over a speaker? It was coming... It was coming over an intercom system, yes. It said, we're now achieving an altitude of 35 miles. Loosen your seatbelt. Not exactly. Below you is the Grand Canyon. Not exactly. I mean, the conversation was a little less formal than that of a pilot. What did he call you, Danny Boy? What did he mean by that? No, I mean that there was not the stereotype monotone that you frequently hear on...

What planet was he from? Did he let you know or keep you in the dark? There was no statement as to the planet. And this is one of the positions where there is a great deal of misinformation on the subject. There is the feeling that these individuals, if they're touring in space, must come directly from a planet. They have to jump aboard some little craft and tour out specifically for the purpose of visiting this Earth.

As our space program proceeds, we build larger and larger craft. They are more and more independent of the planet of their origin. And there are undoubtedly any number of independent of the planet on which they were built and perhaps have been for many generations.

Oh, I see. So maybe they wouldn't even know their origins. Well, if they knew it, at least they might have difficulty in explaining it to us, since their New General Star Catalog is probably somewhat different from ours.

They wouldn't have the same numbers, and they might have difficulty in explaining just the source of their origin, supposing that is that they came from any considerable distance.

And I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. It is 60 minutes before 9 o'clock. We have with us Dr. Daniel W. Fry, who is reputed to be an internationally known scientist, researcher, and electronic form scientist in the world on the subject of space and space travel.

At least this is what it says on the back of a book. I have never subscribed to this, but I'll be there. I didn't have anything to do with writing that. Well, I think it's very, very smart of you to disassociate yourself. With as much as possible of this, before you know it, you'll be appearing on programs and you'll say, the Daniel Fry they speak of in that book is not me.

And then, of course, no one can, you know, no one can poke fun or show how ridiculous it is. Oh, they'd find a way to do that anyhow. Well, you don't seem to mind, though. Well, it must be paying off somehow, do you not, to mind? No, but people become accustomed to this. Knowing human nature, you have to discount this. In advance, if you are going to make a statement or write a book, which you know will be to many people somewhat incredible, you know in advance exactly what the result will be. But I've noticed people like you always have your escape hatches. You make a comment and you know that there's a certain amount of suckers that'll go for it, a certain amount of people that are neurotic enough and want to believe. And so you know that you will attract them and you'll have no problem from them. But to extricate yourself from the type of cross-examination, that someone like myself may give you, you have these little escape hatches.

Well, no, no, this is the things at the point that I'm making here are perfectly true. I don't need any escape hatches. What we're trying to get at is... Well, now, Ben Sincere, will you tell me that you, too, I take a ride in a flying saucer. I can't believe that. Completely true. So the best book said to you, we'll give you the name to this chapter. What did you name it originally? I didn't name the chapters at all. I put no title to that. By the way, I mean, if the question really comes up, I have the original, all of the original script. And I can show that this is a fact. Well, would you say then that this publisher is either A, slightly less than honest, or B, not qualified to be a publisher because he gave whoever best books is, I've never heard of them. This is their one and only book, perhaps? No, they have published several books. Well, then who... If you know anything about publishing... He'll reply.

You know something, Bob. And I assume that you do or should know something about it. You know that a publisher publishes books for the purpose of making money, even though the writer seldom does. In a case like this, a publisher expects to. And he publishes a book in a manner in which he thinks will create the most sales. Just as newspaper writers publish newspapers in order to sell a newspaper. And so they put in the thing in the newspapers the things which they will sell, in quotes, sell the newspaper or the book. Now, the inside of the ship is explained to me. That's another chapter. This is accurate. Not the title to the chapter. That's not accurate. The data is. Well, it's accurate. I mean, I'm just pointing out that I didn't title any of the chapters. So this not-so-formal voice said, Dan, my friend, I want you to know how this spaceship works. Why? You know, what was so attractive about you that they decided to show you how it worked, even though you never saw them?

Oh, I think... I don't think there was anything particularly attractive about me. I think that anyone else that happened to be there would have had... No one else saw the vehicle, or as you call it, the sampling. I don't know whether anyone else saw it or not. Of course, there are many, many reports of these things all the time. How did you happen to be alone when you entered it? Hiking down toward the static test stand where we had the big motor set up. I happened to be alone simply because I missed the last camp bus in the town. I was supposed to be celebrating the 4th in Las Cruces. I hadn't missed the last motor pool bus into town. I was alone because everyone else, all my friends, had gone before me.

And then you say... Or is this the publisher? Did the publisher make this up, or did you say you would go to New York and then back again? Why did they take you to New York? Did you say you liked New York? No, I didn't say I liked New York. The statement was made that was an interesting... How could you say you liked it? It wasn't. It was actually 20, Bob. The flight was made at 35. The level was dropped to about 20 over the sea. 20 miles. And there you were. And you took it in stride. You said, Oh, sure. I'm up in a sampling device. Did you decide to call it a sampling device at that time, or was it later? I never decided what to call it, Bob. That's what it was. That's what it was, a sampling device. And it was shaped vaguely in a... Not vaguely. Very precisely. Precisely. In an oblate. And did you ask anything? No. Yes, I asked many things. What did you ask? In fact, I was asking questions practically constantly during...

You're a very cool cookie to be in such a situation and think of all things to ask. You didn't freeze up or anything? No, there are many things that I thought to ask afterwards that I didn't think at the time. There are many things that have been suggested by others that I should have asked, and I agree with them. I should have. Did you ask any voice if it went to St. Andrews College, too? No, I did not. Wow. That's a terrible way of putting it. If you want to talk to Dr. Daniel Fry, he's going to be with us for a while longer here, and because he may be whisked away to some far-off celestial body. If I do, I'll find a way to communicate. I'm afraid you will. And it's Webster 7-1-1-5-7, Webster 7-1-1-5-7. I broke up my friend in the booth nine minutes before nine o'clock, and let us hear it now for... Do you have every sharp pens? It's before nine o'clock, and Dr. Daniel Fry, all of the UFO fans certainly know of

Dr. Fry. If you people just joined us and you don't know, he's a scientist. He worked for Aerojet General Corporation. Do you still work for them? No, I did. I worked for them a few weeks on a special job last year, but I haven't... I don't work regularly for them. Well, he was employed by Aerojet General on a regular basis. He worked for Aerojet. He worked for Aerojet at the White Sands Proving Grounds near Las Cruces, New Mexico, where he was in charge of installation of instruments for missile control and guidance. He's been employed by the California Institute of Technology as a consultant. He claims that he took a ride in what we would loosely call New Mexico to New York in a matter

of 30 minutes. There's about a session with the pilots, which millions of people have asked.

Now, the people usually want to know first of all.

Usually, the questions are divided into five groups. The questions are divided into five general categories. And unfortunately, they're usually asked as though they were generalities, so they could be answered by one answer. The first question asked usually is if there are, if we are being visited from time to time by intelligent beings from somewhere else, from whence do they come? The second question usually, or second series of questions, usually relate to the logistics

of space travel. How can they? How can they cover light years? If we don't assume that any of the planets in our system are inhabited there, then they must come from some other system. And how can, in one lifetime, how can they cover these distances? Of course, the real answer to that is that they probably don't in any one lifetime. That the craft in which they travel, our planetoids, that is, they're independent of any planet. Would you call them space? Well, you might call them that. We're all spatial nomads on this planet. We're all traveling on a big spaceship here. It's a pretty big spaceship. It's big enough so the gravity keeps the air, the water, and the food on the outside instead of having to confine it on the inside. But we're traveling through open space at a pretty good velocity. We're rotating with the galaxy at a speed of about 240 miles per second in the rotation of the galaxy. And in somewhere between 25 million and 100 million years, we're going to be halfway around

on this trip. So we're engaged in quite a long journey. I've never heard anyone say, stop the galaxy. I want to get off. I can't afford to spend 25 million years just to get around to the other side of the galaxy. We've found other ways to amuse ourselves in rock. We seldom think much about where we're going or how long it's going to take to get there. And I'm sure that beings in their own craft, which are large enough to furnish a complete closed-system ecology in which they live and have their being, are not particularly concerned as to how long it will take to get here from Alpha or Proxima Centauri. All right. So the question that most people seem to be concerned with is, where did these people come from? How did they get to the Earth's atmosphere? What's the third one? The third one is usually, why should they? Why should they go to all this trouble just to visit us? And of course, the genuine answer to that is, probably in most cases, they don't.

We're just curiosities en route. They're going from point A to point B. And the Earth happens to be on the path of the travel. And they see a little civilization, a primitive sort of civilization growing up here. And they're a little curious as to what that is. They're curious as to the level of development of this primitive civilization. Pilots probably occasionally drop down low over areas in central Australia and central Brazil, where there are races that haven't yet achieved the bow and arrow. And they probably bear the same relation to us that we do to have achieved interstellar travel. We're probably very primitive in feeling. They might be curious as to our little civilization developing here. All right. Now, you said the first question was, where? But they didn't tell you any specific place. The second question, how? Now, what about a how do they? Well, this is a series. This is a series of questions.

And we could spend at least two or three hours just getting well into the technology of space travel. We could spend two or three hours covering the history of our own primitive attempts to get out into space. But the major questions are... The major objections usually are the primitive ones. Where do they come from? usually are the tremendous distances, X number of light years. How can we cover them? And the answer to this is that they don't necessarily have to do it in any particular length of time or any particular number of lifetimes. But they dwell, they live upon the thing in which they're traveling, and their main purpose is not to get from Alpha Centauri, whatever their system is, to the Earth. But this is the arrival in the vicinity of the planet Earth. It's just one incident in their life. It's not the reason for which the craft was built. Well, it must be pretty dull to be living on a spacecraft.

Well, we're all living on a spacecraft. We sometimes find it dull here. Come on, there's a little difference, though, between Earth and space. Well, Earth is a big spacecraft. Other than that, it's exactly the same. It's traveling in space. You mean to say that their spaceships are so big that they have accommodated them with parks and with highways and things like that? Well, highways, you need all spaces, they're highways. I mean, they don't need to build highways. You don't build highways within your automobile. See, the highway is space itself. The ship is... Yeah, but the Earth is going through space. So if the Earth is a big spaceship, then the analogy is valid. So I think it's kind of silly of you to say, well, the Earth is one big spaceship. Yeah, we know what you mean. We're spinning on an axis. We're going in orbit, and the whole galaxy is moving. Yeah, we know that. But I think you'll have to admit there is a bit of a difference.

How big are these spaceships? Not necessarily. It is assumed by some astronomers now that there's a strong probability that the moons of Mars, Phobos, and Deimos are actually artificial spaceships. I know this may come as a shock to you, but... No, nothing that you would say would come as a shock. Well, actually, I didn't say this. A number of articles have been written in advanced scientific magazines. Advanced scientific magazines? Yes, advanced scientific magazines. What magazines? You mean a science fiction magazine? Scientific American magazine. Would you consider that as a... Scientific American? Yes. Well, you think of a better... Who publishes Scientific American magazine? I'm not sure who the printer... I didn't ask for the printer. I didn't ask for the printer. I know that... I have subscribed to the Scientific American magazine since about the age of 14. When you stopped reading Bob Rogers, it became too dull for you.

Yes, actually, truth many times is much stranger than fiction, but those who don't read the... who don't keep up with science, obviously, are still back in the fiction stage, and it isn't nearly as interesting... All right, Dr. Frye, we are going to have the news coming up in just a moment,

and you see all those lights there, that means there are many people who either, A, want to tell me that I'm all wet, B, they may want to tell you're all wet, or C, they may be just looking for information, and we'll talk to all of them as soon as we... You're on the air with Dr. Frye. Go right ahead. I think I have to...

Yes, actually, of course, this thing was written by... Not by NICAP. NICAP had nothing to do with it. It was written by a gentleman named Richard Hall, who is the self-appointed assistant director of NICAP. He was never elected by anyone. In fact, NICAP has never had a vote on anything. As he said, a half-truth. I mean, the statement he wrote was a half-truth. I have never claimed that the standards for obtaining degrees in St. Andrews or in any part of England are the same as they are in America. This is a question of opinion, and certainly Richard Hall is as entitled to his opinion as anybody else. Well, you've got to realize, young man, that this statement is coming from a man who only a few moments ago likened St. Andrews College to Notre Dame University. I likened it only in the sense that it is a church-oriented society. Oh, I see. Of course, NICAP made a big... Richard Hall, acting for NICAP, made a big step down when he wrote this thing

because he had proclaimed for a month before... Before that, there was no sex place. In fact, on a couple of Eastern programs, I had to give the phone number and the address of the place so the people could call it themselves if they're interested. And if anyone is interested, in calling St. Andrews in London, the number is Stanford Hill 5516. You can call and tell them yourself that you don't think that their college or university is a good one. How many people do you think don't have anything better to do with their time or their money than to call? This alleged college in London, England, and say, do you exist? I mean, what are they going to accomplish? Well, they have to accomplish anything. This is exactly the point that I'm... Are you an American citizen? But they aren't accomplishing anything by giving their completely unknowing opinion of something they know nothing about either. All right. Young man?

I appreciate your call. Thank you very much. Okay. All right. Let's go to the Webster 71157 line. Hello. There's a consultant in cosmology.

All right. Okay. I was employed... I was employed in the Eaton Canyon project of the Office of Scientific Research and Development and the California Institute of Technology during the first part of World War II to develop, produce, and to test the missiles which were used by our armed forces during war. It did require scientific knowledge, I assure you,

and it was not just on a consultation basis, actually. This is a somewhat understatement. The work was actually done. We actually tested the things that we designed. It took place in the English language and in the American idiom, except for the fact that

the idiomatic phrases were somewhat scrambled. In the midst of a rather precise scientific statement, a slang word would appear. It was put together as though the person using it were not aware of the difference between the words that we have formally accepted into our language and the words we have not yet accepted but constantly use. All right.

...the information apparently which was received... was received by monitoring our communication devices. Now, I'm giving... This is simply my own opinion. I had no factual answer in this because I never asked the question. I didn't say, well, how is it if you know so much about us you have to sample our atmosphere? Many people have asked how such a race could learn the English language or any other language here without having actually traveled among us. I'm not sure of what system is used. Any race, for instance, that was capable of monitoring our television broadcasts could easily... could easily learn our language because you have the picture and the sound constantly to get it. This is the way every child learns every language by associating the sound he hears with the act or the object which he sees at the same time. And any intelligent race can easily learn a language this way. They wouldn't be able to learn the grammar this way.

They would learn the language as she has spoke, as Mark Twain, I believe, once said. So this possibly is an explanation. I don't know whether it is the explanation, but the point is we are apparently dealing with a race that has progressed somewhat beyond us, and yet we insist on judging them by our own limited intelligence, our own limited standard. Perhaps that race is actually intelligent, and if they are, we probably wouldn't be able to understand many of the things that they do. All right, it's 9.15. Daniel C. Fry is our guest, and we'll get back to the phones in just a moment. Webster 7-1-1-5-7, Bob Grant with our guest, and it's Dr. and...

Dr. Fry. We have the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena.

This is a... We have today received your check for $15 in the printed form dated September 25th for your application as a regular voting member of the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena, receipt for which is enclosed. It gives us great pleasure to welcome you to membership in Project Skylight. We believe that you have a great deal to give us in the way of pioneer efforts on the tremendous undertaking of this project. So apparently... Well, the only question here... The question... The question was brought up by Hall. He made the public statement sometime that I was not a founding member of this organization. I'd come in too late to be a founding member. I'm just an ordinary member, not even a voting member, so... Because this did come up everywhere, every pay we went, I went on the air, somebody phoned in, so I had to make a few copies of this. The receipt that's below, by the way, is printed on it, founding member of NICAP.

So just to keep the record straight, I... All right, we'll take it as Exhibit A. You're talking about the grand opening of Glenbrook... Glenbrook Homes, Glenbrook, in fast-growing northeast Orange County, is your dream home. Line 8, and... Or, no, Line 9, I beg your pardon. And you're on the air with Dr. Frye. Go right ahead. Yes. Mr. Frye, I'd like to know...

My occupation was... Actually, I was in the blasting business. I had studied some organic chemistry in school. I became interested in natural organic chemistry. This led into... Blasting, and I was... I mean, in connection with an air... Do you want to know which aircraft factories I have worked in? That's several years ago. Before a time in Lockheed Aircraft. That's... What did you do there, Mr. Frye? I was on the fire department there. I sought that job because on the fire department, you can learn more about a company than you can in any other position on the job. We were the one people in the entire plant that had keys to every lock in that plant and patrolled it. I was on the graveyard. We patrolled every room and every building of that plant every night. And I sought this job because I was interested in how aircraft plants run, how they're put together, what they do, as much as I could learn about it. And now, also, cycling and...

In the California desert? No, not in the California desert. It was at Brights and Springbounds, which is actually in the... Was it not several years ago, Dan, that we had a report? No, this isn't true. I've never reported. No, I... I haven't. I have a... It was printed at the desert when several other people were there after you. Yes, this is true. There was a report made there, but this was several years after the event itself. This was the first case, really, where there was a public statement of what had happened. This was at Giant Rock, California, where they have a convention. Did you not have food? No, no. You're thinking of George Van Tassel. No, I'm not. You've got personality. No, I'm not, Dan. Well, you... I think you know me quite well. I sit in and... Food's cashed anywhere. On any part of the desert. George Van Tassel. George Van Tassel does at Giant Rock has foodstuffs there. I know that. I think you lived in El Monte.

This is true. Apparently, ma'am, you're not the only one that thinks that Daniel Fry is an interesting study.

Well, Bob, I just happen to know his back. People do, because when I announced that I was going to have him on the air, I got incensed with Dan Fry.

Well, I... I feel that he's, you know, kind of a phony. I would not bother to be... It doesn't bother... It doesn't bother Dan Fry. To each their own. I mean, you'll figure out how they're going to... I mean, I'm not incensed with a man at all. Move on to someone else. Now, you're beautiful. Webster 7-1-1-5-7. You're on the air with Daniel W. Fry. Go right ahead. Um, Dr. Fry? Yes. Um, I would like to know, um, if you could describe one of these beings. Uh, one of... Well, which beings are you referring to? Well, the, um... This is typical of the questions that are asked. As I pointed out at the beginning, this... Uh, this thing was a sampling device. So far as I know, there were no beings aboard it. In fact, the precise statement was made that there were no beings aboard it, that this was a remotely controlled sampling device. Uh, consequently, I saw no beings, persons, uh, little green men or what have you. Uh, I assumed from some of the conversation

that there was probably not too, uh, much difference between, uh, the operators of that craft and, uh, the humanoids, uh, we call them in here on this planet. Uh, however, I, I didn't see them, so I couldn't, uh, give an eyewitness description. Were you frightened of going on, uh, this craft? Well, certainly... That you wouldn't land? Uh, certainly I was. Uh, I've been frightened of many things in my life, but it hasn't always prevented me from doing them. Uh, I probably, uh, was as frightened at that time, uh, as I've ever been in my life because this is a, a case where you're facing the, the unknown and the, uh, unknown is the greatest fear that, uh, people have. I mean, it, uh... Because you can't... Uh, you can't... If you can't estimate the hazard, you can't take the calculated risk because there's no way of calculating what the risk is. Uh, certainly I, I was frightened at the time. All right, thank you for your call.

Yep. You're on the air with, uh, Daniel W. Stryger right ahead.

Airplanes. That time they didn't call them saucers.

They gave them a lot of other names. Yes. What I'm curious about is this. Years ago, some people feel that, uh, even in biblical days, because of the wheel, we also had the flying saucers. Why it would take over a hundred years to sample the stuff we have on Earth?

Well, I'm not sure that the sampling is being done by the same, uh, people or for the same purpose. Again, this is one of the, the, uh, problems of trying to make generalities on this subject. If we are visited at random by intelligent beings from, uh, some other planets, there are, uh, 150 billion known stars in this galaxy alone. Uh, at least half of them are now suspected to have planetary success. Uh, those are all systems, uh, of about ten planets apiece. Which would give us, uh, about, uh, 700 billion, uh, planets in a galaxy. No matter how pessimistic we are about the conditions or what, how small a percentage of these are, are conditions suitable for life. Every astronomer and every biochemist today assumes that there are at least a million or two that, uh, have intelligent life on them. Uh, so if we try to, we try to say, well, all of these, uh, visitors come from a same place in the same type of craft,

we're making a generality which just can't be valid. Perhaps the devices that are coming close to our planet now are interested enough to sample our atmosphere and never heard of us before, never heard of this planet, never were here before, even though there have been reports that go by far back as the written history of man can trace of the occasional arrival of such devices. That sounds reasonable. All right, ma'am, thank you very much for your call. We have to move on. Thank you very much. This is KLAC in Los Angeles. You've just joined us. This is Daniel W. Frye, called the White Sands Incident, and he claims he took a ride in a, you should pardon the expression, sampling device, was out of the three billion people on this earth decided that only one would, you know, deserve to ride on this thing. Well, they said miraculously nobody else was there. One of the great miracles of all time, he got out, they took a little spin over New York

because the light patterns were so lovely at 20 miles an hour. They had been flying at 35 miles up. And, of course, when I said, how could you see it at 35 miles up? Why, he quickly, you're a very adaptable fellow. You're about the slipperiest guy I've ever interviewed. No, actually, Bob, you can see the light pattern just as easily from 35 miles an hour. There you go again. You're beautiful. Yeah, well, it's you, Bob, that are slippery. I mean, it's easy. No, no, I just... It's easy to make sarcastic statements if the visitor doesn't have any chance to refuse them. Well, you've had all kinds of arbitrary, but you can't refuse. You just... Well, okay. Certainly, I can refuse. I will commend you for your protean efforts, Mr. Fry. Hi there, Mr. American Motors Rambler Dealer. How... ...listening to two-way radio, KLAC, the freeway of the airwaves with opinions traveling securely in both directions. Now, here's... All right, back to the phones.

KLAC Metro Media in Los Angeles. Two-way radio. You're on the air with Daniel W. Fry. Go right ahead. There's one question I want to ask you. All of you people who... You try to give the impression that they're non-belligerent.

In other words, they're trying to find out if it wouldn't be possible for them to live here. That's for the human race. Well, it's always possible. I mean, after all, most of the white race came to these good old United States and proceeded to push the Indians out that were here before because they decided... Well, did you get that impression in any way? No, I got no such impression from this particular person. I don't think they're meeting because... I think that this race is... This particular race is far enough ahead of us so that they wouldn't have to get rid of us in the first place if they wanted to live here. In the second place, I don't think they would consider for a moment living on any planet. I think they feel a little bit of pity for any race that's still confined to the surface of a planet where we're subject to cyclones, tornadoes, whirlwinds, floods, heat, drought, and all of it. They're more advanced.

I mean, they could control the weather. Well, but they can control it much easier aboard their own craft. Which they have created for that specific purpose. There's no point in landing on the surface of a planet and trying to control the whole weather of a planet just to suit themselves. Well, now, there's another question. We're spending millions of dollars. The other planets, Mars or Venus...

Now, when you say they, who are you referring to? Well, I'm talking about the contact that you made with them.

The only reference to Mars was a statement that there had, at one point in history, been an intelligent life there. There was no statement that there was intelligent life there now. No. Did you ask them that? Not specifically, no. Did you ask them about Venus? No. You didn't ask them anything else? Venus did not come into the discussion. It's surprising how few things can be said in a 30-minute period. That is, you're talking constantly, but with 100,000 questions that need to be asked, you just don't get to all of them. Have you been contacted since then? There have been several cases where there has been short-term contact, yes. Not at the same time. You didn't think that? Did you ask these questions? I thought to ask many, many questions, and these were not ones that at the moment were particularly important to me because I'm sure that within the next 15 years we're going to go to these places and see for ourselves.

Did you decide, Dr. Fry, did you decide what these subsequent contacts were? Have you made up your mind what they are? What do you choose to tell us? Well, you'd have to quantify what they are. Okay, what contacts have you had since then? The lady asked a good question. What contacts? Okay, there has been communication in perhaps the same manner. Well, now, Bob, you've had to work a couple of days. There's a whole chapter devoted to the specific means. I want the people to hear you, you know. They can't see the book, even though I'm holding it up to the microphone. Well, actually, it's on sale a number of places. All right, you tell us. Come on, don't weasel on it. No, I'm not. No, actually. In other words, why do they pick out individuals, or is it just accidental? Oh, I think... In most cases, Iron Man, it's accidental. You asked why, and Bob asked several times sarcastically why I should be picked out. I think probably I was picked out by the same process

that picks out a pedestrian to be hit by half a brick that falls off the corners of a building. His trajectory and the trajectory of the brick happened to intersect at a certain point, and so he has chosen. But I think that anyone else who happened to be in the same place at the same time would also have been chosen. How convenient for them to choose someone from, what is it, St. Andrews? You called it university, but the book says college. What is it? Well, actually, it is a university. Obviously, this is another question, but people who would like to attack personalities, who would like to attack characters, who set out to do a little character assassination, can find, always can find, easy and convenient means to do it, especially not look too... Especially with someone like you. Yeah. Matt, thank you very much for your call, but we have to give someone else a chance. All right. Okay. You're on the... You're on the air with Daniel W. Frye.

Go right ahead. Oh, just a moment, please. Just a moment. We have Dean Sander, and he has something of a news from Dean. We'll look to our guest, Daniel W. Frye, and let's see. Are we... Okay, here we are. Yeah, you're on the air. Go right ahead. Mr. Grant? Yes. I'm glad you said bad news. Yes, indeed. Are you...

No, I'm not, ma'am. I don't know if I've told you or bothered telling you, but people have told me. They said, well, you're not... If you... If you think... If a guest has credence, why, you show it. I don't have a standard approach where I'm going to ridicule every guest. I think that... You know, and why should I... Why should I be insincere? Well, I... Why should I say, while Dr. Frye is here, something complimentary and be, you know, obsequious to him? No, no. And then after he's gone, tell everyone what I really think. No, I don't... I'd say it while he's in front of me. I don't expect either, but I... And he apparently is so used to it that it doesn't bother him. No, I... I listen to you. I mean, to every one of you. I can listen all day long. And, of course, I have a disagreement on items I don't believe. But I would never go as far as ridiculing a person. Now, I... Well, he deserves to be ridiculed because he has the temerity

to try to foist on people, on mature, grown-up people. He has the temerity to try to foist on them this absurd story. Now, wait a minute. Well, this, Bob, is your opinion that is absurd. And you forget that your opinion may not be the opinion of the world or even the opinion of the majority. But only the French... Only people who want to believe in things like this will believe you because they want to. But you see, you haven't been able to offer one proof. First of all, number one... Now, look. Mr. Fry, you'll have to agree to this. This lady is bringing this out. I didn't gratuitously start this. Mr. Grant, do you remember how people laughed when two brothers said many years ago you can't fly? Do you remember when the sewing machine was in the air? Do you remember when the sewing machine was in the air? No, I don't remember when the sewing machine was invented. I don't either, but I can read. So, in other words, you want to use the Wright brothers

and you want to use the sewing machine. You could use Da Vinci. You could use many other people. You could use Columbus. You know, sir, yes. The point that she's making is that certain people have ridiculed every step in advance, every new concept that's on the map. It's automatically ridiculed by some people who aren't willing to go beyond their presentation. But you're not offering any advance. Mr. Grant, I don't know if you haven't permitted me to have any advance yet. I mean, we've discussed nothing but my character, my background, my credibility, and so forth. We haven't got into it. I think anybody that comes up with the type of story you have should be questioned about his background and his credibility. The thing that you're doing there, but here is my point. The whole point, you missed it. I need to say I believe Mr. Adaptify or I don't believe. I just sit back and look at cases like this for many, many years. It's going on and on.

How much does this man really know and how much has he imagined? This is what I'm trying to do. Well, ma'am, you're a listener and I think if I were a listener, I probably would take the same approach. But it was my duty to examine this man and examine what he is purporting and to tell the people honestly what I think. Should I ever be proven wrong, I will be the first to admit it and I'll send a plaque to Dr. Fry. Thanks for your time. Well, I'm glad you said that. All right, goodbye. A long overdue in-depth report on the progress of the war on poverty, in Watts. Daniel W. Fry, one of the most controversial figures in the realm of the UFOs, a man who has supporters, certainly, those who believe that Dr. Fry has made the greatest breakthrough and has uncovered something for us. And, of course, there are those who feel that it is sheer fabrication. I suspect there are many people who are undecided. At any rate, there are many, many people who know

of Dr. Fry and what he says and there's no question that when you say Daniel W. Fry, a lot of people know who you're talking about. Let's see. Is this a message for me? Does that fellow that's hollering in the newsroom want me to... Oh, okay. The general

astronomical information and also the suspect information, that is, the things that are suspected about it in the first place, Chris, is an asteroid that's been around for years. For some time, it makes its orbit, I believe, about once in 18 months and every 19 years it comes relatively close to the planet Earth. It's supposed to make a pass, I believe, on June 19th next year, during which it will come, according to the last orbit of measurement, will come within about 4 million miles of Earth. Now, this sounds at first glance like comfortable missed distance. The asteroid is about a mile in diameter, which was quite a few millions of tons of matter. If its orbit should change enough to cause it to impact the Earth, as most astronomers say, will certainly happen sooner or later. We hope it will be a lot later. But if it does impact, it would have very sad results for considerable portions of the Earth. Actually, 4 million miles, as I say, is quite a,

considered by most people, quite a missed distance, but it is less than half of 1% of the orbital distance of the thing itself. That is a change of a degree or so in its orbit, but it could bring it on a collision course. And since it has been admitted by astronomers that this probably will occur sooner or later, later maybe meaning a few hundred thousand years or hopefully even more, nevertheless, it could be sooner. Certain influences could operate on it to bring it within the actual gravitational influence. Well, there is some thing that when it... Well, each time

it comes by, the gravitational influence of the Earth acts on it a little bit and tends to swing its orbit in a little bit, and then it moves it for the next pass. This is why they say that sooner or later it will probably impact. Actually, I believe there was an article in June Time magazine in which this was a problem posed by some systems management group to design a means to blast the thing either into pieces or to use nuclear warheads to push it outward in its orbit so it wouldn't miss the Earth. And there have been since that time several other statements on the subject which indicates there is a serious discussion in scientific circles about what to do if its orbit should be changed in a way it would cause impact. All right, sir. Thank you very much for your call. All right. You're on the air with Daniel W. Fry. Go right ahead. All right. Yeah, go ahead. Hello. Yes. I can hardly hear you.

Speak up, please. Yeah, we heard it. You say you saw a flying saucer 25 years ago. I was on the 27th floor in a great big city. Did you hear that, sir? Yeah, we heard that. Yeah. Which was taken

a little over a year ago. About 5 million people in the United States have seen and reported to some public extent at least the observation of devices that couldn't readily be explained in earthly terms. They also discovered that less than one person in four, even though he gets a close look at such a thing, will report it. So this would raise the number who had seen it to at least 20 million in the last eight years. And this is a gallop poll. This is not any way out to investigation or anything. It simply means that a lot more people are seeing them than are commonly realized by those who don't see them. Of course, until everyone sees one, the last person on earth who hasn't seen one yet is probably going to ridicule the whole thing even though he's still the last person on earth that hasn't seen one. All right, thank you very much for your call. All right, you're on the air with Daniel Fry. Go right ahead. Hello.

[01:00:00] Questions of credibility and the White Sands incident

Did you actually

get on the ship, she's asking? Yes, I did. I didn't board this sampling device. That is, I saw a small compartment. I didn't see the entire device because it was simply being used to take samples of Earth's atmosphere and ground level. There was, however, a small emergency passenger compartment in which the passengers could tell. You see the sign above where he was said small emergency passenger compartment. They're used to taking passengers. Apparently, Bob was there too because he knows more about it than I do. Well, it's easy to be there. All you have to do is have an active imagination and you can be anywhere you want and do anything you want. Yeah, then Bob should have written the book, but let's get back to what you were saying. Well, you know, I may, now that I see that there are so many gullible people that want to believe stuff like this, I think I will. Tell me, where were you when you were invited on this? Were you invited? Were you just...

Well, actually, I had been hiking down from the center of the right-hand base area toward the static test stand on which the big motor that we were testing was mounted. When was this? This was on the evening of July 4th in the year 1950. 1950. You were just walking along and this thing landed and a voice called out to you or what? No, no voice called out at that time. The device simply touched down about 70 feet from where I was standing. And you walked over to it? Yeah. Over to New York and back? This was subsequently. There's quite a little interval in here that we were skipping over. Take you to New York and right back to New Mexico? Yes, it made a circular pass over the city. It did not land in the sea. And you talked for 30 minutes? About 30 minutes. And it never occurred to you to ask if there's any life on any other planet? No, well, it's unbelievable that many questions are at least 10,000 questions that a person would be expected to ask to begin with.

But that would be one of the major questions. Well, I don't think so necessarily, ma'am. Of course, everyone has their own ideas of what is important. What is the first question you asked them? The first question I asked was the nature of this device when it was being used for. You said, what is this I happened to step onto? I hadn't stepped onto it yet, ma'am. Oh, you were asking when you were still standing out on the sand? Yes, this is true. Oh, you wanted to know what you were going to get into? Well, I hadn't been invited to enter this. This came along sometime later as a result of some skeptical comments that I had made. At this point, I was probably a skeptical individual on a subject such as this as you could have found in the average station. Now, why are you so vague? You're always vague with all this conversation. You never answer a thing directly. Because many of these questions can't be answered with a simple yes and no and produce any understanding because

the neither answer will be two. You are combining into a simple question a complicated subject. It's like asking a person if he ever beat his wife as much as he wanted to. No matter what he answers, he's going to be in trouble. Never mind all that hogwash. I'm just going to ask you, you're standing on Well, ask me a straight, specific question, ma'am, that can be answered yes or no, and I'll give you an answer yes or no. How big was this thing you saw sit? It was about 30 feet in diameter, about 16 feet in height. That's all? Yeah. It's very small, isn't it? Yes. It was not an interplanetary vehicle. That's why I emphasized the fact that it was a sampling device. Now, wait a minute. You just stood there and you asked a question before you got on. There was a considerable conversation before I got on, ma'am. What considerable conversation? Which began when I touched the craft. Well, there's about three chapters in the book that are... Never mind the book. I'm asking you.

All right. If you want me to recite it, read it for you. I'll be happy to do it. No, but not all this hard work. A voice called out to you and said, would you like to go on a trip? What did it say? No, the voice did not call out to say, would you like to go on a trip? The voice, the first time that there was any voice was after I had actually touched the surface metal of this, and it was only a warning to discontinue doing this because this could be very dangerous. So what did you say? I didn't say anything at the moment. I jumped back, tripped over a bush, and piled up in the sand. You tripped over a bush? Yeah. And then the voice said, okay, stand up, we're inviting you in now? No, the voice then, there was a chuckle or perhaps a snicker which caused me to suspect that the reactions of the operators of this craft were not too different. from our own reactions at the same time. Yeah. Ma'am, you're asking very good questions. Whatever they are, know about our Bible and know

all about us. So apparently they've been studying us for a long time. You know, Bob, Cougar, he's an interesting person. He's certainly filled with hard water. He knows how to bathe. He's trying to chew. Well, of course, if you read, if you have any doubt, in my opinion, if you have any doubt as to what a person's individual with me now is, when you read the book, that doubt will be this man is, you know, he's a nice guy. I'm sure he wouldn't hurt a fly, but I can't understand how a grown man would actually have the nerve to go around and do what he's doing, but he's doing it. Well, of course, this is where the difference of opinion comes in, and some people do have these type of opinions. In general, the more highly educated the individual is, the more interesting they are. Notice, yeah. Bob, thank you so much for your call. You're wonderful. Thank you. Ten o'clock, and I am very sorry that the time has run out, because I know that there are many of you who would

have liked to either commend Dr. Daniel W. Fry, and there may have been some who would have liked to have jousted with Daniel W. Fry. In either case, I'm sorry I didn't get in. Maybe on another occasion, if we haven't offended him too much, maybe he will appear with us again. I don't take offense easily, Bob. I can see that. You must be used to this type of skewering. Yeah. Well, actually, this is a carbon copy of the thousand other programs that I have done, but too often the time runs out before we get into anything important. That is information that people are interested, really like to get. However, I will be doing a lecture at the Professional Women's Clubhouse tonight at 820 Java Street in Englewood, California. It's one block east of La Brea and a half a block north of Arbor Vitae, 820 Java Street, in Englewood, and we'll be there probably a couple of hours, and if you didn't get any questions answered now and you care to come down, we'll be

there at your pleasure as long as you have questions to ask. Is that free, Dr. Brown? I believe there is a donation at the door. I don't think that if any of you... You never say there's a fee. It's always a donation. This is a fee, Bob. You brought up the question, so allow me to answer it. If there's any of you who don't feel you want to pay anything for this, I'll personally escort you through the door to your seat, and you won't be embarrassed by not phoning up anything. We do have to rent this building, there are charges, and of course people say a thing like this should be done free, but unfortunately the people involved are not rich enough to do this as a public service. Well, I'm glad to find out that you're getting your money somewhere for all the traveling that you're doing. Well, actually, I'm not getting it. When there is enough to pay the expenses, why, it comes out real nice. All right, Dr. Daniel W. Fry, space traveler, par excellence, we'll

leave you with these words for today. This is what the space travelers allegedly said to Dr. Fry when they left him back in 1950. They said, goodbye, Dan, do your best, help people understand the truth about themselves, their existence, and their future. When you have made enough progress, we will contact you again. That was 17 years ago. They haven't contacted him since, I guess. I haven't contacted him since. I don't know. Well, that slams lid on things for today and for this week. We'll be looking forward to talking to you Monday at 1 o'clock. Our producer-director, Robert D. Lewis, and our gentleman of distinction at the controls, Ken Miller, and this is Bob Grant reminding you, your influence counts. Use it. Mr. Larry Chatterton, who has been for some years radio news, radio reporter, and a broadcaster, has been a great announcer and commentator for KFI. We have had him as our speaker several times. I know you will enjoy him. He has made quite a

study of prophecy, the Edgar Cayce works, as well as others, and I know that he is quite well-fitted to speak on Lost Atlantis Shall Rise. Mr. Chatterton. Thank you, Mrs. Forrester. I'm sure this is a very important issue, and it's a very important topic. But I know that there are a number of other people who

have been on this board. I'm sure there are a lot And it is indeed pleasing to see so many of you here tonight in the face of rather formidable competition. What with Dodger Stadium holding a mobile home and travel trailer show, the International Auto Show at the Pan Pacific,

and that great Bavarian celebration, the Oktoberfest at Wrigley Field. So we sort of have to feel that there are some Atlanteans here among you tonight. In fact, Edgar Cayce has said that the people that we meet and the interests that we find most dominant in our lives

is a very good indication of our past lives, or at least some of them. For instance, a lady that goes shopping in one of the big downtown shopping stores and invariably winds up at the counter where something Oriental can be bought, whether it be jade earrings. Or a shari or something else. You can be pretty sure that at one time she had a life in the Orient, and that in itself is affecting this present one. Actually, it's just about three years almost to the day since I was here before talking on Atlantis.

And those of you who were here then may be wondering, so what's happened? Why are you back again? Anything new? Well, Atlantis. Atlantis is a pretty old land, and nothing new much with Atlantis has happened. There have been some things occur that might be of interest to you, and undoubtedly many of you were not here three years ago and would like to know something about Atlantis. Atlantis has been bandied around the name for many, many years. In fact, you will find out on the tables there a little booklet by Edgar E. Cayce, who was the son of the... The great psychic Edgar Cayce, called Atlantis, Fact or Fiction. And after tonight, I hope you'll be interested enough that you'll want to pick up the book and learn a little bit more about Atlantis. Actually, in an hour, we couldn't possibly cover in very much detail a civilization that presumably existed for 200,000 years. So let's take just a moment or two to look at Atlantis.

Let's look into the background of Atlantis. Is it fact or is it fiction? It has been called by many scientists nothing but a myth, a fable, a legend. And yet, I'm sure you'll agree that through every fable, through every myth, through every folk tale, there is a basis in fact. And I believe this also applies to Atlantis. Because down through recorded history, there have been... I've mentioned in many areas of a sunken continent, the lost islands of Atlantis. And much has been written, both pro and con, as to whether Atlantis really existed. If you want to delve into it rather deeply, you might go back into Plato's Dialogues. This is one of the prime sources of information as far as historical writings are concerned. And the Dialogues with Timaeus, and Cretius mentions Atlantis a number of times. And in fact, he at that time said that Atlantis was situated just outside the gates of Hercules, which would place them in the Atlantic,

outside the Straits of Gibraltar. To bring you up to date with what's new in that particular regard, just this past month, some scientists said they had discovered that Atlantis was located outside the gates of Hercules. But let's take some of the older things first. Homer's Odyssey also mentions Atlantis. The ancient Indian Sanskrit writings mentioned Atlantis. You'll find considerable mention in the Secret Doctrine by H.P. Blavatsky. In fact, in the esoteric teachings that have been handed down from generation to generation, there has nearly always been some mention, of a sunken continent of Atlantis. And as recent as the 14th and 15th centuries, the maps that were made in Europe contained the islands of Atlantis. Now let's turn to more modern times. What do our geographers and archaeologists say about Atlantis? Well, by and large, they say there's nothing to it. It's a myth. It never really existed. It's just a fable that no one knows how it got started.

And yet, on the other hand, for the past 200 years, scientists have been looking for Atlantis. You wouldn't think that men would spend their time looking for something that didn't exist. In the past 100 years, Atlantis has been found a number of times. For instance, the Swedish scientists located Atlantis, or what they said was Atlantis, in the ocean off Sweden. The English scientists had located what they said was Atlantis off the British Isles. And then in the newspapers, maybe some of you saw it, just last month, a report from Greece that a Grecian seismologist by the name of Professor Angelos Galanopoulos, together with some scientists from the United States of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute of Massachusetts, had discovered Atlantis in the Aegean Sea. And they were sure it was Atlantis because they quoted Plato to say that there had been a moat around the walls of the principal city on Atlantis. And they had discovered the moat by depth soundings,

and that they were going to search a little more for a week or two, and then since winter was coming, they were going to put off any further action until next year. It just so happens that the island off which they found this moat is, I'm looking it up here now, Santorini. And that's not far from Crete. In fact, it's in the Cyclades island chain. I thought it was a rather unusual coincidence that this report came out, and it may spark more tourists to Santorini next year, because it turns out that Santorini is one of the foremost tourist islands in the Cyclades chain. At any rate, I'm not belittling what they say, but it is in contradistinction to most of the information that we have come across as far as Atlantis is concerned. Now, as for more definite proof, or at least more definite possibility that Atlantis ever existed, we have to turn to some other accidental occurrence. Up until, how long ago was the IGY?

About five years ago. Well, at any rate, until that time, 1960, that's six years ago. Thank you, Mr. Forrester. Until that time, the British National Geographic Society and I think our own National Geographic Society, many people had looked for Atlantis by doing depth soundings in the Atlantic. And they had come up with nothing. They said there's no evidence of any plateau or any rises of land in the Atlantic that would indicate a continent being there. In fact, one scientist said that for years he had sounded and probed and dived into and photographed the Atlantic Ocean, photographs up to 18,000 feet deep, and he saw no sign of any lost cities. Well, that to me was no indication because let's say a visitor from some other planet had been sent down to this Earth to see if there was any human life, and he should happen to land out in the desert in Nevada or many areas in California or in Arizona or Utah or somewhere up in northern Canada,

he could definitely go back and say, absolutely no sign of human life. I saw no cities. Because you can get out in many areas within a few hours' drive of Los Angeles and be sure that there's not another person living on Earth unless you turn your radio on. However, with the occurrence of the International Geophysical Year, man studied this planet as he never had before within recorded history. And as far as the Atlantic Ocean and the Pacific, they made a concerted drive to cover almost every square mile by depth soundings. And they discovered that there, maybe some of you can remember, back in 1960, Life magazine came out with some big spreads on the IGY and the Atlantic and the Pacific Ocean. And the strange thing is that they show, running right down the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, what they call the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. But it's a huge section of land with mountains, valleys, and strangely enough, a huge crack that is miles wide,

indicating that some cataclysm split this land open. They don't call this Atlantis, although they did give one little concession to Atlantis. They named a little seamount,

[01:20:00] Transition to Unit 15 meeting segment

which is just a plateau that comes up off the ocean floor, just like a mountain peak, but doesn't reach the surface. They call them seamounts, and they called it the Atlantis seamount. That's just south of the Azores. Oh, they gave Plato a mention, too, because right next to the Atlantis seamount, they said this is the Plato seamount. However, this is a vast undersea continent, stretching virtually from Greenland clear down south of the equator. So there is something in the Atlantic Ocean. At the bottom of the sea, that could be the continent of Atlantis. Now, in their many soundings, they send down what they call pouring apparatuses. Many of you probably know about them. It's some device. I'm not too familiar with it, not being involved in that sort of thing, but I know they do send this down, and it hits the bottom and drills a hole and brings up a section of the bottom, a core. And they did this in many areas in the Atlantic,

and discovered remains of diatoms. These were freshwater plants. Not saltwater diatoms, but freshwater diatoms, indicating, now it's not proof of Atlantis, but indicating that at one time, this land that is now at the bottom of the ocean was once in the air and had fresh water on it for the plants to grow. Another thing occurred not far from the Atlantic, not far from the Azores, when an Atlantic cable or a section of it broke, and the men who were involved in repairing it sent their grappling hooks down to find one of the loose ends, and they were able to pull up, or in the process of getting the cable up, they also, their hooks caught on some lava. They had sense enough to turn it over to scientists, since it came from the ocean bottom, and discovered that it was vitreous lava. In other words, non-crystalline, lava. Now, had there been a volcanic eruption in the bottom of the ocean, and the lava poured out, as it does in many areas of the earth,

this lava would have been crystalline. So the scientists said this lava came into the air above the surface of the ocean. As I say, no indication that Atlantis existed, but still proof that the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean at one time was above the surface of the ocean. There have been literally thousands of books written on Atlantis, and for a myth, that's a pretty good record. Most of these books have been written in the past 200 years. Some of them have been saying, yes, there was an Atlantis, and others to the contrary, that it never existed, couldn't possibly have existed. Maybe many of you have read Philos, Dweller on Two Planets. There's a mention in that. We had another source of information, on Atlantis, and I think a rather interesting source, because it was a psychic one. Many of you have heard, or if you haven't, I hope you'll take some of the books off the book table in the lobby, on Edgar Cayce, who was a man for some 40 years,

was able to go to sleep, and while in that state, some part of him, some part of his consciousness was able to travel to know more than his conscious mind ever could possibly know. I met him twice. He was a rather simple man, nothing complex about him. He had relatively little education, and yet the information that came through while he was in this state of unconsciousness amazed people. Most of the readings, some 15,000 of them in these 40 years, were what were called physical readings. In other words, a person would have, if something was wrong with him, he would consult with all the normal means of healing, and if he achieved no results, he perhaps would come upon the name of Edgar Cayce and would send for a reading. While in this state, Edgar Cayce would diagnose, would prescribe healing methods, and in perhaps 99.44% of the time, the readings were correct. These were physical readings. Now, if this proved to be true,

and believe me, these readings were checked because doctors were after Edgar Cayce. They felt that he was prescribing without a license, diagnosing without a license, and they tried to prove him a fraud, prove him a charlatan, and no one ever has. Many doctors came away after seeing him as his boosters rather than his detractors. Now, if the information on the physical readings was proved to be accurate, then it's, I think, perfectly proper to assume that the information from another type of reading that he gave would also be relatively accurate. The other type of reading was a life reading. This had relatively little to do with the physical body of the individual for whom the reading was being given. Rather, it had to do with his problems here on earth, mental problems, perhaps spiritual problems, work problems, anything to do with even some of the physical problems were originating in what the readings proved to be past lives.

In order to accept this information, you almost have to accept reincarnation, that we have lived before and will again. Out of the 15,000, some 700 readings mentioned Atlantis. It came about, the first reading was in 1923, and it came about quite, quite accidentally as it were. The individual for whom the reading was being given, it mentioned that one of the present problems in today's life had its origin when this individual lived in Atlantis. And so it went through the 700 readings which lasted until 1944. I believe the last one was given in September of 1944, and Mr. Casey died in January of 1945. Unfortunately, most of these people who received the readings, so they said, so I lived in Atlantis, and they didn't think enough about it to think, well, let's get some more information. This is of scientific interest. So they didn't go back to Mr. Casey and say, what about this? Let's have a check reading and find out more about my life in Atlantis.

Some few did, and as a result, we have gained a little more of the knowledge of what it was all about. As for what Atlantis was like, it was this vast continent, and the surface of the Atlantic, the Earth, according to these readings, was not as it is now. In fact, it's probably true that the polar areas that we know today were not as they are now. They were changed. And there's evidence of this, too, in that the far northern areas, particularly up in northern Alaska, has been proved to have once been a tropical area. What was this nation like, this Atlantean nation? It was a great nation, with a civilization that was highly developed. It should have developed highly. 200,000 years it lasted. What were the people like? Well, according to the information from Mr. Casey, most of them were giants up to 12 feet tall.

In addition to these tall people, these were the, as it were, the ruling class. There also were other creatures, half animal, half man. They were the ones who did the menial work for the Atlanteans. Well, this, too, has come down to us in legend of these half creatures. You've all heard of Pan, half man, half goat. Then there is the centaur, half man, half horse. And another evidence that has lasted through the ages, there in a little valley near the Great Pyramid on the plateau of Giza, just outside Cairo, is the Sphinx, half woman, half lion. And as yet, she hasn't told her secret. It is rather interesting to note, too, that Mr. Casey told a great deal about ancient Egypt. And when the people escaped from Atlantis, as many of them did, some of them got to Egypt. And in one of the temples mentioned by Edgar Casey there, was the fact that the people were being treated for various appendages. And even doctors today say that

we have the remnants of a caudal appendage. In plain words, we once had a tail. Also, how did these people get to be half man and half people? Or half animal and half man, I should say. Scientists tell us that you just cannot breathe

[01:30:00] Larry Chatterton on Lost Atlantis Shall Rise

man and animal. And yet, very recently, there has come to light a discovery that if you destroy the thalamus gland, then the proteins of man and animal are compatible. And it's quite possible that this highly developed race of Atlanteans were able to discover this. After all, they apparently discovered many things that we have yet to discover. And they were able to produce these beings, which then served them basically as slaves. As you can well imagine, in 200,000 years, they gained a lot of knowledge. We feel we've gained a great deal in, what, about 8,000 years of our recorded history. We think we're pretty smart. Well, think how much smarter we'd be if we had a civilization for 200,000 years. Astronomy, science, mathematics, great knowledge was gained by these Atlanteans. They gained atomic power, and they gained another power that we have only rudimentary knowledge of at this present time, a vibratory power that they got

from somewhere out in space, whether it be from the sun or the stars. These were both mentioned. Actually, the sun is a star. But it wasn't just solar power that charged up their batteries. It was a means whereby they focused this into a device, what they called a crucible, a crystal power station, and were then able to disseminate it out to what they called craft that floated in the water, under the water, and flew in the air. As to whether they sent emissaries into outer space, we don't know. None of the readings that Edgar Cayce gave mentioned flying saucers or interplanetary ships. Unfortunately, he didn't live long enough to enter our saucer age or think of the information he could have brought to us. The anti-gravity force was also known to the Atlanteans. Well, if they were so smart, how come they disappeared? What happened to them? Apparently, they got a little too smart. Even as many people say, we are getting today just a little too smart.

We have developed the means to either elevate us to great heights, or to destroy this planet. Atomic power. It is definitely a mixed blessing, depending upon how it's used. And apparently, just as we do today, the Atlanteans found they could foul up their utopia, too. Because with this tremendous amount of knowledge and power that was gained, some of the people decided to use that power, not for the good of their fellow man, but for their own aggrandizement. And so we find, just as we find the world situation today, split into two camps. In Edgar Cayce's readings, he called the, let's say the good fellows, the children of the law of one. What does that mean? Well, that all that is, is one. It's a rather abstruse definition, but it means that we are part of the great universe, and that we have all the powers of the great universe. But it's up to us to use them for the betterment of our brothers. On the other hand, there were those who sought power

for its own use, for their own use. These were called the sons of Belial. And probably the word Beelzebub came ultimately from this. The children of the law of one, also had great psychic powers. Apparently, man in his early days had far greater psychic powers than he has today. And so, as a result of the improper use of this tremendous power, and it was a great power, because they had tapped the source of the universal power, the cosmic power, as it were. And by using it improperly, they disturbed the magnetic centers of the earth, and brought on the first of three destructions of Atlantis. The first destruction occurred approximately 50,000 years ago. That's a relatively short time ago in the normal span of things. And what it did was split the continent. And this is one reason why I say this great crack that the team on the IGY was able to find maybe a possible proof of the existence of Atlantis. At any rate, a large portion

of the continent sank. But there was still a great deal left. You know, back in 1945, a number of scientists were very frightened because in Alamogordo, New Mexico, they were ready to experiment with something that had never been done. To their knowledge before, they were going to set off an atomic device. They had done it on paper. They were sure it would work, except that they weren't sure that this atomic device might also trigger a chain reaction so that instead of just exploding there on the desert, it might explode the whole world. This was quite a possibility. I guess, fortunately for us, it didn't. But this is what got out of hand, apparently, with the Atlanteans and caused tremendous earthquakes, tremendous fires in the center of the Earth to spew up volcanoes. That didn't teach them a lesson, apparently, because some 20,000 years later, they're right back where they were for the first destruction. They had perhaps been changed

their ways for a while, but mankind or human nature being what it is, they figured, well, this can't happen again. But it did. They reached the same point where they were using their powers destructively, and again came another destruction of Atlantis. This time, according to the Cayce readings, there was a tremendous upheaval in the Earth. Lands that are now above water were then underwater. The polar axis shifted, and all that was left of Atlantis, this time, were three islands. And according to the Cayce readings, they were called Poseidia, Arias, and Og. But this is probably the greatest cataclysm that the Earth up to this time had ever experienced. There were tidal waves over the entire Earth. The face of the Earth was changed. According to the readings, it was at this time that the Alps, as mountains, were pushed up. Because, you know, the Earth is a peculiar thing. It's, if we can believe scientists, and they showed pictures also

of the Earth's crust, we're sitting on a molten core. We just have a crust. And should this Earth and core, like a pie, bubble up too much, it can alter the crust, just as a pie crust can be altered. It doesn't give you much confidence in the word terra firma, because terra isn't as firma as it should be. Now, what about the third? Oh, yes, I might say, too, that these tidal waves, with the second destruction of Atlantis, were virtually worldwide. And it is thought now that this is the origin of the Great Flood and the time Noah took couples of every type into his ark and landed on Mount Ararat. Even theologians will tell you today that it just isn't possible for the Earth to be covered with water from 40 days and 40 nights of rain, no matter how hard it rains. However, we do find that in almost every history of every nation around the world, there is mention of a great flood. And supposedly this is the time that occurred in the second sinking

of the continent of Atlantis, which left just these three islands. Also, there's the possibility the biblical stories of giants may have come from Atlanteans who fled either prior to or following this great flood to the European mainland, to the Mediterranean. According to the Cayce readings, there were those who went to the Pyrenees, those who went to the Egyptian land. I've often thought that possibly, I don't know whether you have seen the motion picture King Solomon's Mines or any travelogues with the great Watussis, you know, they're all over seven feet tall, and they are not at all like the rest of the tribes around that area. In fact, they also had, until recent uprisings, many of the other tribes, the Bantu's particularly, had them as slaves, relatively. And they are a very regal race. It's quite possible that Atlanteans arrived at the mouth of the Nile and traveled up it until they got to what is now Watussi territory.

I don't give this as proof, but it's interesting to think about. So we were left with three little islands, Posidia, Arias, and Og. And then came the third and final sinking. Again, it proves that man apparently does not learn, at least not quickly, because these three islands lasted for about another 10,000 years. You notice the time is getting shorter. First it was 20,000, now it's 10,000. But then, at about the year 10,500 BC, these three islands went down in a final cataclysm. And it's thought that these three islands were the ones mentioned by Plato. Although they may have been quite well spread across the Atlantic, because, as I mentioned, Plato called Atlantis just outside the straits, or the Pillars of Hercules, or the Straits of Gibraltar, as we call it today. Whereas, according to the Cayce readings, some of the islands were part of what is now the Bahamas. And the Bimini area, just off the coast of Florida,

is one of the areas that we are going to hear more about within relatively few years. How so much for the history of Atlantis. And I think perhaps all of us are concerned, well, so, all right, there was an Atlantis and it sank. But what does it mean to us today? I think the Edgar Cayce readings are very important. And if they are correct, then Atlantis does have a message for us today. Because there is a great similarity between the Atlanteans and the ruling powers of the Earth today. In fact, Mr. Cayce said that, many Atlanteans are living today. And in the past, say, 100 years, there has been a great influx of Atlantean entities into the population of today. He even went so far as to say that all of the rulers of the nations of the world today are Atlanteans, at least the rulers of the major nations. I'd like to give you an example of what these readings had to say, just to give you an idea. These were readings for people

who had asked for them and who are living today, probably are still living. There was one who fled to Egypt just before the final submergence. This was an expert in communications, a pilot of aircraft. Another lived during the peak of the Atlantean civilization, was a teacher of psychology, thought transference, clairvoyance. Hence, in this life, the urge to study along these lines. And you see, this is what Mr. Casey says about reincarnation, that what we did in past lives influences our present life. If you have a great interest in Atlantis, this is an indication that you lived in one of the Atlantean periods. And therefore, when you hear about it today, it answers, well, what some scientists are called tissue memory, that our cells actually have memory. Now you say, well, what we have in our body didn't exist in Atlantean times. Well, no, perhaps not. But the cells are, in a sense, charged by the mind or the soul or whatever you want to call

the thing that continues to exist. Every cell in our body is charged with that knowledge. And possibly, the fact that we have been able to bring about our knowledge of atomic fusion and fission, in other words, our nuclear power today, the fact that there is cell memory or tissue memory from Atlantean times, because this, from all we can determine, is the basic cause of the destruction of Atlantis, was the misuse of atomic power. Another example, I think, of someone who has Atlantean memory, or let's say more particularly Egyptian memory, is Joan Grant. Perhaps some of you have read some of her books. The most famous one, I think, is the Winged Pharaoh. She wrote what she called at that time a novel. She later admitted that it was not just a novel, but that it was her own inner memory. And she wrote of ancient Egyptian times just as though she had been there. And in all probability, she was. Another reading told of a person

who had gone to a mountain retreat in Peru to study. And while there, the cataclysm occurred. And he saw the flooding of the lowlands and the tidal waves. And it said this accounts for his present fear of destruction from drowning. Another was an entity among the children of the Law of One. It was a mathematician journeyed to the Pyrenees and to Egypt by air. He became famous. It went to his head and brought disturbing forces into his life. You notice I said mathematician. When you go to the Giza Plateau, and see the pyramids there, and particularly the Great Pyramid of Khufu, or as the Romans call it, Cheops, you think, how could a relatively uncivilized people, because after all anybody that preceded us is more or less uncivilized. We all recognize that. But how could these people 6,000 years ago build this mathematically designed structure? The blocks are a meter thick, a meter high, and two meters long. Did they know the metric system?

Don't know, but that's what it turns out to be. How could they make these blocks of granite, haul them 400 miles from their quarry at Aswan down the Nile to near Cairo, and assemble them with no mortar, and yet so absolutely, almost as though they had ground them as we would grind them on a milling machine today, and face them together? This is why, in spite of the fact that there have been many great earthquakes in the Mediterranean area, the pyramid still stands, because the blocks are absolutely as tight together as you can get them. Someone had told me that you couldn't even stick a knife blade between them, and this is true. To this day, you can't stick a knife blade between those blocks. But, the thing that I started to mention, how could a people who, according to what history tells us, didn't even know of the wheel, how could they design and build this, and orient it in such a way that it's so square that if you were to drop a line

from the very tip of it, straight down, it hits an absolute square in the center. In other words, if you draw a line from each corner, the center of the X would be the apex of the pyramid. And even more fantastic, it is oriented, if you sight along the east side the east border of the thing, of the pyramid, and look up at the north star, it is now only three seconds of arc away from the Polaris star. How could people have done it? Well, according to the Cayce readings, the answer is very simple. The Atlanteans, this highly developed people, mathematically, scientifically, in fleeing from their sinking islands, went in various directions, some of them to Yucatan, and some of them to the Pyrenees, but a great many of them to the Mediterranean area, and settled in Egypt. It is rather fascinating, I was in Egypt just a little over three years ago, and you find in studying their history that relatively nothing of any great importance

is left of the ancient Egyptian civilization. In fact, they used to bury their dead in little baskets just in a desert sand, and they are still there, because it is so dry, there has been no decaying. But, what I was going to say is that all of a sudden, something happened, and they started building magnificent stone structures. Even the step pyramid at Saqqara is a marvel, because it is built not of big blocks of stone, but merely of pieces of stone, and yet it has stood for over six thousand years. So, there is evidence that something happened. There was an injection of new blood, an injection of new knowledge, new scientific knowledge. And, of course, gradually it became dissipated, and was lost. Here is another reading. Warnings were given to the good ones, as it were, of the coming destruction. They had this psychic ability, and they were aware, you might say, that God talked to them, if you want, and told them that since the forces

were being used for evil, it was going to be torn apart. And so they set out for new lands. And in this reading, the entity was sent out to look for suitable areas before the final sinking. He went to Central America and set up, as it were, a colony there. And Mr. Casey said that temples have been discovered that were Atlantean in our origin. It's not known at this time, and the readings say that this entity could answer questions of the archaeologists as to why there were no burial grounds in these ruins that were found. It was very simple, because this gentleman in his past life in Atlantean times was in charge of cremation. There were no burial grounds. And he also said that the ashes from the cremation can be found in one of the temples used for that purpose. Some of the information we got about their scientific knowledge was from a reading that told about a man who was in charge of the power station. He said there was a prism of many facets

that transformed the invisible rays into a form usable for propulsion of aircraft, boats, submarines, even vehicles that floated a short distance above the earth. And that's one of our newest forms of transportation, these hovercraft. They've tried them out on the San Francisco Bay. There is a regular operation of the hovercraft across the English Channel from, I believe, Calais to Dover. When we say there's nothing new under the sun, it's probably very true. Now, these rays could also rebuild the human body when it was damaged or when it got old. And today this is another thing science is working on. They tell us that within a relatively few years we'll be able to increase the length of man's span on earth. And they've done that for many, many years because they have learned about the factors that have to do with the formation of life. I think they go by some initials. Everything goes by initials today. These are DNAs and so on.

Now this, according to the reading, the bodies of the initiates, or the priestcraft of that time, were used for many ordinary lifetimes. But the priestcraft kept that secret to themselves. The ordinary person didn't ever get to know about it. Now this person who received this information on this power station thought, well, maybe here's a way I can make a million if he can give me the blueprint for this, perhaps. So he went back to Mr. Casey and asked for another reading. And he was told if he would prepare himself, purify his mind and heart, and get the right attitude toward others, only then would the information be given to him. Well, that was pretty good advice. Now, also Mr. Casey said that there are today records of the existence of Atlantis. Well, this is perhaps one of the most exciting statements that I think he made in any of the readings. Because if we can find the records and translate them, this of course is a big problem, we have found

records of the Etruscans who lived a long time ago preceding the Roman civilization in Italy. We found a lot of Etruscan writing, but as yet, no clue as to how to translate it. So we know relatively little about the Etruscans except what we can judge from the many artifacts we find. Unfortunately, as yet, there's no Rosetta stone, which enabled us to translate the hieroglyphics of the ancient Egyptians. But there are records of ancient Atlantis, according to Mr. Casey. There are three places. One of them on the sunken island of Posidia, in the ruins of the temple there. Where is it? Off the coast of Florida. In fact, near the island of Bimini, if you want to go looking. And here is the thing that when we say, is Atlantis to rise again, the answer is yes. We can say that unequivocally. I didn't say physically, because Atlantis is rising again in us. We are faced with the same problems today. But, Mr. Casey also said that Atlantis would

rise again physically above the waters of the ocean. When will it happen? Well, he said, 68 or 69. That's 1968 or 1969. And that this temple, with the records, will be discovered. However, don't hold your breath until 1968. As with so many of the prophecies, whether you take Nostradamus or the biblical prophecies or any others, time is never quite accurate. After all, time is not a thing in itself. It's an invention of man. It's a tool that man has devised to relate one occurrence to another. So, in the spiritual field, or psychic field, if you will, time is not necessarily as accurate as we would like to have it be with our electric clocks and so on. Isn't it strange that in the Bimini area, or at least in the Florida area, Ponce de Leon was searching for the Fountain of Youth? What brought him to that particular spot? Where could he have gotten his information? Because if all the records of Atlantis are there in this ancient island of Posidia,

then there's also the information on how to rejuvenate the body from this crystal device that Mr. Cayce spoke of. The second place where the records are to be found, Mr. Cayce said, is in Egypt. That there is a temple or a vault, if you will, underground which contains the records, because the people who fled to Egypt felt that all of their great civilization should not be lost, and as a result, they set it in tablets of stone and they presumably are still there. The reading even told where it was. They said it was between a paw of the Great Sphinx and the Great Pyramid. That there is a corridor running underneath the sands there. Well, when you say sands, you think, how could a corridor be running in the sands? Actually, it's not sand. There is an overlayer of sand, but the Great Pyramid and most of the other structures there are built on a limestone plateau, and it is possible that there are tunnels there. One of the group

interested in the Cayce organization, Marjorie Hanson, who is studying archaeology, put together all our savings and a few years ago believed enough in this Cayce reading to go over and make some explorations. Well, it takes quite a bit of doing to convince the Egyptian government that you, particularly a girl, could find anything there, but she did get together enough money to put down a few drills, core drills. Unfortunately, she didn't have enough money to make them extensive enough to find anything. However, I understand that she has gone back there and is continuing her studies and hopes ultimately to find that. And Mr. Cayce said it would be found. Again, he didn't say when. Now, the third place is in Yucatan, where these records will be found in Central America. Not only that, but Mr. Cayce said, and I believe this reading was given around 1940, as I recall, he said the temples are being found and the records are being found, but they don't know what

they are. And in fact, he said these records will find their way to museums in Pennsylvania and Washington, D.C. I have tried to track down whether any of the Cayce people have gone to these museums and tried to find them, but nobody seems to know. They may not have arrived there yet. The stories of Jules Verne and his 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. Jules Verne undoubtedly was an Atlantean because he was way ahead of his time. Only now do we have atomic submarines that he wrote about many, many years ago. So this must indeed have been an Atlantean memory. Buck Rogers and all the fantastic planes that he used to have in his stories years ago. Only today are we coming up with a plane that will fly 2,000 miles an hour. So you see, all these things point to the fact that these individuals were not creating stories. They were remembering actualities of a prior life. Up until the International Geophysical Year, many of these readings that Edgar Cayce gave, nearly

700 of them, seemed absolutely outlandish. There was nothing at all that would indicate that what he said had any basis in fact. However, since the IGY has looked at this globe of ours as it never was before, many of the things that Edgar Cayce talked about don't seem quite so outlandish. So perhaps one day, and certainly if 1968 or 1969 brings Posidia up to the top of the sea again and we can find a temple, it will indicate that not only were the physical readings of Edgar Cayce accurate, but so were the other, the life readings. Let's see what we can find out about Atlantis as far as it applies to us today. Our progress in science, you'll have to admit, in the past 50 years has been more than in the previous 500 or perhaps even 1,000 years. It's just been a little over 50 years that man has even taken to the air. The Wright brothers, I think, were about 53 years ago when they made their first flight, and look what we're doing now. Not only

are we ready to fly planes that will go 2,000 miles an hour, this new SST, supersonic transport, will take us from Los Angeles to New York in about two hours, when it gets built. It's rather frightening, isn't it? And coming the other way, coming from New York back out here, you can be here before you leave New York, as far as time is concerned. As I said, these things are coming about, this amazing scientific progress that we've made, are the result of the Atlanteans who have reincarnated in this present time and are bringing it back. Look at what's happening to the youth of the nation. They're getting taller. Have you noticed? Mrs. Chatterton is a teacher, and she says it's nothing now to see six-foot-five, sixteen-year-olds. So, apparently, as a race, we are getting taller. How else are we like the Atlanteans? Well, we're lazy, I guess. We have developed vehicles. We can't drive two blocks to the supermarket. I mean, we can't walk two blocks to the supermarket.

We have to drive. We have devised means of flying in the air and going under the sea. We are utilizing universal forces. The atom certainly can be called a universal force. We've harnessed them for our own use, peaceful uses, and also for forces of destruction. It sounds familiar to the old Atlanta story, doesn't it? There are two groups in the world today, those who are working for peace, prosperity, freedom, uplift of the individual, and there's the other side, those who are working for the forces of destruction and enslavement of their brothers. And if that doesn't sound like the two opposing camps today, I don't know. Every world leader today is an Atlantean, according to Mr. Casey. Well, when I was here three years ago, the world leaders were not exactly the same as today. Three of them have left that high position, because at that time I used to think that I was the only one in the world who had left the physical body.

Well, Mr. Kennedy has left the physical body. So has Mr. Nehru. And Khrushchev is just another, I guess you would call him, a peasant in Russia. Does this mean then that Mr. Johnson and Brezhnev and the other Russian leaders are still in the same dilemma that is facing us? We are faced with these two opposing groups. One would have man free, working toward his enlightenment and spiritual advancement. The other would enslave man, both in mind and body. And we are still at the crossroads, as it were. If the one group maintains complete power, it could well lead to the destruction. Not just of a continent, but perhaps of the entire world. Scientists agree that we could upset the balance of forces in such a way that this entire earth would explode and become just a pile of rocks. In fact, they think one planet in our solar system has already done that, because there is orbiting out, I think it's between Mars and Saturn. But anyway, there is out there

a group of rocks, they call them asteroids, and quite possibly it once was a planet. So what does this second rising of Atlantis mean to us? Aside from the fact that we will learn a great deal about ancient man if it does rise physically. But the fact that Atlantis is here with us again, it has already arisen, I think is the important thing, because it gives us a second chance. We may have had those three chances before, and failed, but we are given another chance to solve the problems of long ago, because they are the same. We are faced with the same situation, and that is the right usage of the things that we have. And the principal thing that we have is life itself, and the life of each individual in relation to his brother. Let's hope we can do better this time. What can we do about it? Well, I think this invocation is one of the finest things we can do. I really thought that was a wonderful thing, Mrs. Forrester, and that certainly should be

an inspiration to each one of us. We can think in harmony with the law of one, the one life, the one law of the universe, one with our fellow beings, helping him rather than destroying him. As each individual living this way has a power for the force of good. And you all know that one individual alone, you say, can't do anything. Ah, but one individual acting in concert with a large group of people. You know, you can shake down a stadium if you all start stomping your feet in rhythm. One person couldn't do it, but each individual in conjunction with his fellow nearby, stomping their feet in rhythm, and you can shake down a stadium. It's been done. It's the same quotation I used three years ago because I just don't think it can be improved upon. It's from Edgar Cayce's readings, and it was stated in many of them. And it says, it's very simple, and yet it's very easy to apply. Today, now, there is set before the good and evil.

Choose now. Thank you very much.

The first one is, did Mr. Cayce believe in a predetermined form of existence for man? In brief, can the life of a human being be predicted in detail? Or is there choice of action? I could say both yes and no to that question in that Mr. Cayce said that trends are indicated. A person's life could not necessarily be predicted in detail. Or let's say that a prediction made for that life could be changed by the individual. As far as the Atlanteans were concerned, it was known that if they changed their attitudes and stopped doing what they were doing, the cataclysms could have been averted. And one of the other things that came out in one of the readings was a prediction that the Southern California area would be engulfed by a tornado wave or perhaps an earthquake. He didn't specify which. But this could be changed by concerted thought from the individuals. And so as far as an individual human being's life being predicted in detail,

yes, it could be predicted from the trends. In other words, a mind or a being such as he was could look out and see where the trends were leading that person. Now, if he changed at some point along the line, then the prediction would not necessarily come true. Just as if there's a winding highway in the mountains with many curves and there are two cars coming, you can predict that they are if you can be in a helicopter above them, you can predict that they are going to meet at a certain point. And this would be prophecy. On the other hand, if one of those cars pulls into a little turnout, he alters that prediction, changes it.

[02:10:00] Closing discussion

So I think that we have to believe that while the overall trends to our life are predictable and in a sense are predetermined, still many facets of our life can be changed. Otherwise, what's the use of trying? If it's going to be, why do anything? So I think we have to believe that life can be altered. We have to get a little better than we are. The next question is what is the origin, or rather the original source of the ideas of man? Or where did the Atlanteans receive their knowledge? As you say, the present Atlanteans are receiving knowledge from their former incarnation. I believe the only original source of information is the universal mind. Call it God, if you will. It's the place of all knowledge. And while Atlanteans are in the present incarnation are getting much of their information from previous lives, still it had to come from some place originally. And that some place, as far as I can determine, would be the universal mind.

The next question, do you believe that the Basque people might be Atlanteans? This has been referred to. In fact, I think if you get this little booklet, Atlantis Fact or Fiction, you will find that there is a mention in there the possibility of the Atlanteans moving into the Spanish or Pyrenees area where the Basques are. And certainly there is reason to believe that they are a different people in that they are not like the rest of the Spaniards. Their language is totally different. Basque, I have heard it and it's almost indecipherable but it's very foreign, more so than Japanese to me. So it's quite a possibility that they are remnants of the ancient Atlanteans. The next question, in referring to Atlanteans who went to Yucatan, did you infer the Mayan civilization could have been established by the Atlanteans? In the readings by Mr. Casey, he doesn't state specifically whether it was the Mayans or the Incans. But it is felt among those who have

investigated the area excuse me the area down in Central America that the buildings, the civilizations down there undoubtedly were remnants of the Atlantean civilization. Because there were many pilgrimages, as it were, made to both Latin America and South America by the Atlanteans during their time of trouble. This question asks if Atlantis sank, which lands rose? Could not Egypt have been a rising land? As far as the Casey readings are concerned, he did not specify. And there's no other source that I know of to indicate just which lands rose and which sank, except Atlantis. Now, we do know scientifically that at one time the Sahara was not a desert. It was a wonderful land forested. Something happened there. There have been areas of the United States that were once underwater. This is, in fact, part of the coastal area of Southern California is underwater. If you go inland a few miles and go through one of these gullies where water has cut down

through 20 or 30 feet of soil, you will find layers indicating that you find that at one time this was either a shoreline or had been underwater. So we don't know specifically which lands sank. Possibly areas of Europe were underwater at that time. This question asks what, if any, is the relationship between Lemuria and Atlantis? And is there any relationship, if there is any relationship, are the people directly related by reincarnation? There are many stories of Atlantis and Lemuria being related. That Lemuria was a much older civilization. And that Atlantis was an outpost of Lemuria. As far as the Cayce readings are concerned, very little was mentioned about Lemuria. But there are books on Atlantis. I recall one by Donnelly, which is one of the oldest and perhaps best known, who did cite a relationship between Lemuria and Atlantis. Personally, I don't know very much about Lemuria other than some of the Churchward books. And I think they do specify that Atlantis

was an outpost of Lemuria. That the Lemurians traveled across South America and migrated to Atlantis. If I remember, it's been many years since I read them, but Atlantis was considered almost a penal colony of Lemuria. But again, here is a vast civilization that is so far back in the dim dawn of mankind on earth that we have so little knowledge of it other than that attained through, shall we say, psychic means. Did Mr. Cayce mention any trouble between the Lemurians and Atlanteans? Well, this is basically on the same subject. And to my knowledge, you have to remember that not all of the 15,000 readings that Mr. Cayce gave have been annotated and brought into a form where books can be made from them. During Mr. Cayce's lifetime, virtually nothing was done about correlating all this information. Every reading was filed. But then, when he died, the Association for Research and Enlightenment felt that this knowledge needed to be

disseminated to as many people as possible, to do as much good as possible. Actually, the Association was formed during Mr. Cayce's lifetime for that very purpose, as a result of a reading. And through the years since his death, every year, a certain number more are microfilm, they've all been microfilm, but they're gone through and checked and catalogued by subject. Naturally, this is a rather expensive project, and as most organizations, money is always a problem. So this is the reason that not all of them have been checked yet. But of those that I have seen, no mention of any trouble between the Lemurians and Atlanteans. But from other sources, it is possible they were related in some way. And probably at one time, being human, they had squabbles. And that covers the list of questions. I don't think I've missed one here. And I thank you very much for them. They're very interesting questions and show your thinking about it.

And I hope that you'll carry with you some word of help tonight in making your life a better one. Thank you so much.