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1966 February 26th Inglewood Unit 15 Of Understanding Barbara Yates Mel Noel Tracking Ufos P77

Understanding Audio Transcript

Recording structure

• [00:00] Opening remarks and Barbara Yates introduction
• [09:00] Mel Noel’s background and credentials
• [40:00] Tracking UFOs and official reactions
• [01:20:00] Further discussion and surviving transcript close

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[00:00] Opening remarks and Barbara Yates introduction

tonight as early as possible. So at this moment, if all will be silent, I will read the great

invocation. From the point of light within the mind of God, let light stream forth into the

minds of men. Let light descend on earth. From the point of love within the heart of God, let love stream forth into the hearts of men. Let love descend on earth. From the center where the will of God is known, let purpose guide the little wills of men, the purpose which the great ones know and serve. Let light and love and peace encircle all the earth. So be it. Now to a very

brief introduction for our speaker. I think one of the nicest things that has come out was in

George Van Tassel's Proceedings magazine that I mentioned a moment ago. Speakers that were present and on the platform at his, at George Van Tassel's convention last October, when George came to write up the report of that convention, there was just one of those

speakers he wrote about, and he gave three pages of his magazine to that one. This gentleman is our speaker tonight. I wasn't able to attend that convention. Giant Rock last October. So I didn't know anything about the speakers they had, but I heard about Mel Noel from all directions. Everyone who had been out there was very

impressed. He had a message. He had a different message and a vital one, a true one, and of a level that we all have to look to and respect to a great extent. The information that we sent out on our bulletin that most of you received in the mail a week or so

ago gives the information about Mr. Noel. But for those who did not receive such bulletin, I'll give

it very briefly. Up to 12 years ago, Mr. Noel was a lieutenant in the United States Air Force,

flying in the United States Air Force. He was a lieutenant in the United States Air Force. He was a lieutenant in the United States Air Force. He was flying a jet plane. And he had experiences that I suppose no other officer, Air Force officer, who has

possibly had the same experiences, has had the courage to come out and face the persecution and the adverse as well as good publicity because of telling of his experiences. However, he wasn't

allowed to tell such for at least 10 years after he left the Air Force. So as soon as he was able to,

he began telling us of the facts of these experiences that he had. We are very proud to

have and very happy to have Mr. Mel Noel as our speaker tonight. We are one of a very few privileged audiences to hear him. Mr. Yates, Mr. Galbraith, thank you. I'd like to say, and I'm going to say,

and I give an acknowledgement here to Gabe Green, especially since he's here. I wouldn't be here

if it weren't for him. He's the one that talked me into talking about it. It was sort of the end of the road

for a frustrated seeking as to what to do with what happened. It would seem that we all, and all of those who are not here,

are involved in a time. A time in the life of a planet, a universe, or whatever. That instead of reading about history,

instead of yesterday, or instead of wondering what's going to happen tomorrow, all we have to do is open our eyes

because it's happening now. It's going on around us. It's all over the world. And yet we wonder how long it's going to last.

And the eyes have been closed because it's been happening. It's not just started. Ms. Forrester answered a oft-asked question as to why did you wait so long to do anything about this. I want to clarify a couple of points, though, Roberta, because it isn't exactly quite that way. As far as relating, discussing our experience, it is a security matter. I don't know if you understand the interpretation of security or not by the government of the United States,

but their interpretation is this is information or knowledge, tangible or otherwise, which is withheld from the public's knowledge for the public's safety. Many people will agree with this.

I find, at least I have come to believe, that this is a form of mental rigor mortis. And it's a form of mental rigor mortis. And it's a form of mental rigor mortis. It's prevalent. It's all over. People are too prone to accept. And it's very easy to be led or to be gullible, shall we say, because of our desires or because of what we are indoctrinated into. I have been affected by this as much as anyone else. Not so much now, but some years ago. It is very difficult to be... It is very difficult to be objective about something which is unknown. Realism is something that's standing in front of you. It's a desk. It's a book. It's a window. I can touch it. I can see it. Things that relate to our common senses. We can begin to comprehend and understand those things. The entire thing is a mystery. Many people say, gee, you're an authority on it. Answer this. Answer that. I know very little. It's true I may know much more than a lot of other people.

But relative to the entire situation, I still know very little. Just like a mystery. A mystery is like a mathematical equation. You have so many givens and you have so many unknowns. Now we're collecting the givens. And the more givens, the more theories we can evolve and we can develop. And from this, which is all of physics, all of physics is theory, what somebody imagined. And it leads us to something until we have fact. Sometimes we are not sure of fact even when we see it. We're not used to it. Our environment has not been such. I mentioned before, it's difficult to be objective about something. And I want you to be honest to yourself when you weigh these things. I want you to understand that part of this was first person. The greater part of it was related. It was related to me and related to the other two officers involved. I want you to be objective about it. I want you to look at it by your instinct, shall we say.

I find that it's never wise to pass judgment on anything at any time as such, unless I'm forced to. We all have our moments of truth where we have to make a decision. We make a hundred a day. But on something like this, it's so important that you must put the issue in the center

[09:00] Mel Noel’s background and credentials

and build the case pro and con alongside each side of it and keep building that. Eventually, you'll know what the answers are as long as you keep seeking.

I mentioned before I wouldn't be here if it weren't for Gabe Green. After so many years, it's very difficult after the warnings of security, the statements, and the... exercising to other individuals who were your friends, the violation of security. I think you'll understand why as I relate this to you. Let's go back now. This happened in 1953 in the early part of 1954. Can you hear all right? In 1953, we had just come out of the Korean War.

We were... None of us were involved. None of us were involved in the Korean War. It had ended while we were in flight school. And we were assigned to a reserve squadron in the western part of the United States. And we were what you might best call line pilots. You had so many duties to perform. You had to fly so many hours a year. So much of it was gunry. So much was cross-country. So much instrument time and aerobatics and such. And we hadn't been with the squadron very long. And we were taken apart, three of us, myself, a Lieutenant Orton, a Lieutenant Verlinde. And we were notified that we were being released from our duties as line pilots. And we were being placed on an operation called Operation Units. They told us at the time it was a security manager. And they then took us into the briefing of it. We don't, to this day, know why we were selected for it. I don't know whether they just took the roster. And threw darts at it on the wall.

Or whether they picked it for other reasons. But we had been picked. They began by explaining the nature of the operation. As to the fact that it concerned the UFO. Or the flying saucers, as you better know. They explained to us that if and when anything happened concerning them. As far as relating it. Discussing it. With friends, relatives, even fellow officers. The statement to us was, don't even talk to yourself about it. You put it down in the report. And take it out of your head. And that's where it ends. They briefed us with several hours of motion picture films. That we had taken by government and military aircraft. They showed us many hundreds of still photographs. Some which they had taken by the government. Many which, I understand, were confiscated from civilians. And we were instructed for a number of times. A number of hours in specific aerial maneuvers. Weave patterns, formation flying. The operation of the cameras.

We were instructed. We were notified that all the armament, the weapon system, fire system. Had been removed from the aircraft. The aircraft were what were known as F-86A Saber Jets. These are one place interceptor fighter planes. These planes became best known for their efforts in the Korean War. In which they were given the greater part of their credit. For. Controlling the skies and over Korea. Their standard system, standard fire system, is 650 caliber machine guns. They carry much more at times. An assortment of different things of rockets and napalm and bombs and such. But standard system is 650 caliber machine guns. These had all been removed. Had been replaced with cameras, with gun cameras. Some of these cameras we were informed contained standard film. The others contained infrared film. The others contained infrared film. The others contained infrared film. If you're not familiar with infrared film.

Infrared film will take a picture of something that you can not see. In other words you can be. Vectored into an area on a target that you can not see by radar. And take pictures of objects. You won't see them then. They only come out after the film is developed.

After all of the briefing. We discussed it briefly. We had been turned over to a colonel who was not with us. He was assigned to the operation out of Washington, D.C. We were to respond only to him. Had nothing to do any longer with the squadron. He was our flight leader throughout the entire experience. And later on became a very close friend. At the time, however, he was as military as you can find somebody. Everything was just strict order. He wanted to discuss nothing else, personal, social, or topics of the time, in any other way, shape, or form.

It was all business. The three of us, Orton and Verlinde and I discussing it, prior to the experiences, our common opinion was that nothing was going to happen. We were aware of the position of the Air Force on it. That there were many reports. That the Air Force made decisions. That the Air Force made claims to investigate these things. And we figured that we were, in essence, the dum-dums that we were going through the paces to live up to these statements. In other words, we investigate these things. This is it. But we didn't really expect to see anything. Let alone hear anything. The first few missions were, as we might say, orientation runs. We were closing up our formation flight. And under different conditions. We were operating at approximately 38,000 feet of altitude. That's between six and seven miles above the surface of the Earth. And we were operating over the Rocky Mountains of Idaho, Utah, and then on north.

The first week, it produced the first sighting.

I mentioned before, we had been instructed in formation flying. If you can imagine, we flew what is called a diamond formation. If you can picture a baseball diamond. Second base is the flight leader. Third base is the left wing man. First base is the right wing man. Home plate is called slot position. I drew the slot position. I didn't like it, but it's what I got. The operation was to maintain this formation, this diamond formation.

Upon a sighting, the formation was closed in. Sixty foot was the wing tip to wing tip. And we were drilled until this became measurable almost to the inch. They, as soon as a sighting was made, a contact was made, visual contact. There was an order change, and we broke into a weave pattern. Now, the weave pattern operated this way. As soon as the formation broke, second base and third base broke starboard.

In other words, broke right. And home plate and first base broke left, on target, onto the target. If the target were dead ahead, it was all, projectory was all ahead. If it were left, it would be to the, of course, the home base and the first base would have first projectory.

If it were on the right, then the third base and second base would have first projectory. As it happened, the sightings, the sightings and all of them were on to our left. And the first one to see them was Verlinde. He always saw them, the first, I don't know why. And it wasn't what he said, but how he said it, I think, that got to all of us real quick. He, his statement was bogeys, nine o'clock level. Bogeys is just Air Force slang. It just means a foreign aircraft, something you don't know what it is. It's something that doesn't belong to us. And we were convinced of that because there were 16 of them. And they were operating in a vertical V formation. They were strung out seven and nine, seven aloft and nine going aft. In other words, they were, they were this way. They were operating about approximately the same speed. They maintained right alongside of us. We were operating at 680 knots. That was service speed.

In military jets, there are two speeds, two air speeds. You have service and military speed. Service is a cruising speed, as it's better known in civilian aircraft. And military is everything you can put in the broiler. It's the afterburner. It's, you can get up into over 700 miles an hour. We couldn't, we could not obtain Mach 1 or speed of sound in level flight, but we could obtain it in a dive. We very seldom did it because of the vibration incurred. So we really maintained at our service speed. They were maintaining at the same speed and the same altitude as we were. At this speed, their, their appearance was a, a relatively distinct physical outline

with a best described aura surrounding them. I, I think perhaps the best way of relating this aura is if you have ever seen a streetlight or a neon sign in the fog and the rain, they seem to be very fuzzy. And this is the type of a, of an appearance that it gives. The effect upon myself, I was pretty excited.

I didn't know what was happening. I'd never seen one of these things before, let alone 16 of them. And I, a thousand questions raced through your mind. And as fast as these questions come, you're, you're moving. The weave was called, off we went. And we're closing on them. And we had been given very distinct closing minimum distances. In other words, you don't get too close. We already knew what had happened to aircraft that had gotten too close. And we didn't want to go through that. We, to the best of my knowledge, did not get any, if, very few, if any photographs,

pictures the first time. The reason being was that the cameras had been hooked up with the automatic gun sight system. This automatic gun sight is a little electronic wonder which pins up the target, holds the target, goes through a series of electronic manipulations, and aims the guns and fires them. This all takes 20 some odd seconds in, in, under standard, you know, conditions. And it wasn't enough. It was, or it wasn't fast enough. It took too long. And I think the cameras triggered several times, but it was too late. We had to, we had to bank off on the opposite leg by that time. If you can picture this weave, of course, the weave is, if you can, I don't know if you can picture it this way or not. We would break. We're in our formation. This is the slot and the right wing man. Break to port, to left. We are now closing on a target, a common target. We have a closing projectory. In other words, if we were to go to target, we would collide ourselves.

So as we would reach approximately 100 feet wingtip to wingtip, the wide man would go low. He'd go under, and the near man would come over in reverse position. We would then reverse, and we would be heading back 180 degrees, or 90 degrees, I should say, on our next leg back. In the meantime, the other two men had reversed their leg and were now heading on target. The effect or the purpose of this was to have two aircraft on the same target at all times. In other words, confirming evidence, opinion of pilot as well as camera. Whatever was produced, there were two people looking at the same thing at the same time. At the same time, when you reversed your leg, you were blind. You couldn't see it, but the other two pilots were covering you at all times. If anything were happening, they would notify you. Our weave pattern didn't go on very long because they broke their formation into four groups of four. This answered a question.

We thought perhaps they were centrally controlled by one unit. They were locked on a control, however it was. We didn't know how they were propelled. And they split into four groups of four, and then after just a minute or so, they split individually. And they demonstrated some things that by the book can't happen. And it's like the bumblebee, you know, he can't fly. That's by the book, but he doesn't know that. So he goes ahead and does it. These things were doing things that you couldn't do in the air, according to the book. It was impossible for a human being, if there were human beings in them, we didn't know then, to survive the breaking from what we were estimating as their top speed as approximately 3,000 miles an hour to a dead stop. And I mean instantly, just as fast as when you turn the switch, the lights go off, that's as fast as they stop. And they accelerate just about as fast. When they turn the juice on, they're going.

As they would accelerate, when they would stop, the physical outline was very clear. They were approximately 150 to 180 feet in diameter, about 20 to 30 feet thick at the widest midsection, cross-section. One point that we didn't agree on was whether a center section of approximately 30 to 40 feet in the center of the saucer, elevated, raised out of it when they would stop. It was so difficult, they would operate so fast, and our observation was in most times so limited, it was difficult to tell whether they would stop, whether the center section was raised all the time, or whether it just elevated when they would stop for observation. As they would accelerate, the haze around them, the aura, would change color, just like the spectrum. In other words, if you were to just go over the spectrum, it would advance through those various stages. There was no evidence of sound. We, of course, were being sealed in.

We couldn't smell anything. We couldn't feel anything. Other than slight compass malfunction, we did not have any instrument malfunction. All systems operated normally. But compass malfunction is not unusual anyway. You get this in many areas. And we didn't experience any uncomfortable effects ourselves, other than what we might have put our own minds to. The entire experience lasted about eight minutes, and as quickly as they had appeared, we didn't see them coming, but as quickly as they had appeared, they were gone. I mean, they go, they go. And they strung off just like a string of beads, and you could count them out of sight. We were very excited about the entire thing. This certainly was something new. We didn't know what to think of it so far. As we knew we were safe, everything was going along fine. When we landed, we were reminded of the security. We were given the reports. We filled the reports out. Whether we got any films or not, we don't know.

They pulled the cans as fast as we landed, and we never did see theirs, or we didn't even know where they went. The security was constantly pointed out to us. It was reminded to us exactly not what would happen, and if we had an example of this during, not during our experience, I shouldn't say this, but it was right around the same time, one of the line pilots, he was not on the assignment, but just in his regular line duties, had seen a few of them. And he decided that he was going to tell more than just a few people about it. So he sold to Fawcett Publications what he saw. And he received $500, for his efforts, and within 24 hours after he had signed the contract with them, the article hadn't had a chance to appear, of course, within 24 hours after he signed the contract, he was in the Aleutian Islands. He was reassigned. That, at that time, was commonly known as a suicide assignment. It's a one-way ticket. It's the one you get that you don't come back from.

So, of course, this weighed over us. We thought a great deal about talking about this to anybody. Many, many questions occurred to us. We would discuss these for many hours alone, just the three of us, because the colonel wouldn't talk to us about it. We didn't know whether it was just happening to him or what was going on at that point. We flew a number of missions between the sightings without anything happening, and it was just like any other run. The second time was a few days later, and this time there were only five of them. Verlinde spotted them again. In the meantime, we had, by our recommendation, they had changed the triggering of the cameras from the automatic to the manual. There was the stick buttons, which meant that we could fire just as, shoot as many frames as we possibly could at any time. And I'm certain that we obtained a number of photographs this way. I remember now that our calculations of aiming are up to us,

it's up to our eye rather than by electronic calculation. If given the proper amount of time, the gun sight would have done a much better job. But in the case of expediency here, we didn't have enough time, so they had converted it. The second experience was just like the first as far as what we were seeing. We didn't know whether they were the same ones or not, but there they were, and there was just the five of them. They moved about. We noticed a lot of yo-yoing. A vertical oscillation up and down this way. When they would turn or change direction, there was no bank. They were unaffected, it would seem, by the various laws that had been drilled into us for months and months in flight school, the laws of lift and drag and yaw and gravity. The force of stopping or acceleration didn't seem to affect anything or anybody that would be in them. We felt we were getting used to it, and yet something was going on inside of us

that we hadn't begun to understand. It was all very exciting, and when something's exciting, you're only focusing upon what's happening, not what it means. It was brought home, I think, very seriously on the third sighting. When it was made, there was five again. This was just a couple days later. When Verlinde called, he notified us that they were there, and at times you assume things, and you shouldn't do that. We assumed the change of position of weave, and in closed formation, 60 feet, tip to tip, you haven't got much room for mistake, and there was a little jockeying there because the call never came. We didn't call a change. And after less than a minute, we had a change of rhythm, and it was a radio channel. This was given to us in a code, which is what's called an inverted alphabetical code. If you take W, X, Y, Z, and invert that numerically, it would be 1, 2, 3, 4. This is the way the codes were changed, or the radio channels were changed

through this alphabetical system. We were given the letters. It took me, oh, probably 20 to 25 seconds to invert it, invert the letters, and figure the numerical values, and then to spin it in. And when I did, I didn't know, of course, in that short span of time, you're not wondering why you're doing something, you're just doing it. And this is just part of your orientation. You go through quite a bit of a moment of true searching during something like this. You wonder why it's happening to you. You wonder what you're doing here, what this is all about. It starts coming to you when you have time to think about it. We thought we were getting used to seeing these things. We could live with them. But the experience of the communication was something that we weren't really ready for, and we didn't expect. We couldn't understand what this was all about. When I hit the channel, there was a voice speaking on it, and it was not me.

It wasn't either of the group, anyone on the flight. It was the other three. And the voice was answering questions as such. Now, at no time did I ask any questions. At no time did any of the other three pilots ask any questions, utter any, verbally. And yet we were hearing something. It was coming through just like we were listening to or talking to each other or talking to a tower on the ground. It was very clear. The enunciation, pronunciation, vocabulary was excellent. The rate of speech was very slow. We were told later on by the flight leader, by the colonel, that he had been asking the questions. He said, I did not say any of them. He said, I was merely thinking them. He said they did not answer all of them, just a few. The first statement that had been made, and we had to, at this time, remember, more or less read in what the question might be, which he later on told us. He said the first question was, do you believe in God?

Now, he said the reason I asked him this was if there was somebody there, and they did, and if they did, then the odds were with us that they weren't hostile. And the answer of the statement was, that we heard was, we believe in the almighty power of the universe. You must understand that there are over 150 billion universes. And that there are many forms and orders of gods in each and every one of them. I am not relating to you verbatim. After 12 years or so, I can't remember exactly word for word, but this is very, very close to the exact wording of what was said. Something like this doesn't leave you as such. The next statement was referring to the existence of life here, where it came from, what they believed in. They said that the question had to have been,

he said the question was, do you, I'm trying to think of what, we decided the question exactly how it was worded, because the statement was, in fact, the existence of Noah or the Bible, the authenticity of it and such. And they said that, they referred to it as an erroneous history book. They said, for instance, Noah's ark was never a boat. They said it was an ark of time or a period of time in which this man was a ruler. And he ruled over a civilization. They said if we'd investigate the Latin, we'd find that Noah meant Inca and that Incas were the last of the Noah's civilization. And they, referred to the, they made the statement that, our scientists had made statements based upon theories that life cannot and therefore does not exist on the other planets in this system. And they said that, they were confirming that statement, those statements. They said life does not and cannot exist on these other planets. It's all inside the planets.

It's all on the interior. Just as the house of the Lord, this is the house of the Lord. We live in the interior of the planet. And they stated that life originated here the same way, on the interior of the planet. And they said it still exists that way. The next question must have been as to exactly who are you or where are you from? Because the statement was, our crews are made up of individuals from the planets known to you as Venus, Jupiter, Mercury, Mars, and Saturn. And they referred to Saturn as the head tribunal planet. In other words, the leaders of state met here to discuss the affairs of state. Went into a number of other things that may or may not be important by discussion with legal advice. There's much of this. I can only discuss approximately 10% of what took place. The total effect of the experience on us was, when we landed we couldn't walk. We were crawling. We were on our hands and knees. And we weren't ready for it.

And all we wanted was out. And this is what we told him then. They gave us sedation. We told him, we said, we want out of this. We don't want any more to do with it. Any way we can get out of it. And whether it was his efforts or not, we were relieved of the assignment. We were relieved of the assignment the next day. The one thing that was out of order was that as soon as we landed, he insisted, he dictated to us, and he said, you do not report the communication. He said everything else, but do not report the communication. This is unusual. We didn't care if we reported anything. It was a relief to get away from it and back to the regular duties. The problem was now, how do you live with it? I've talked to veterans of combat and seen some of the psychological effect of first-hand combat. I don't know if anybody here has ever seen combat. I have not. I hope you haven't from what I've seen and the effect of it upon others.

It's a brutal thing. And yet some of this is similar to it. You weigh mankind. You weigh your own and you weigh the thinking of the world. And you say, where does this fit? Where does this fit in my thinking, in my way of life? Well, I have no time for it. I haven't got the answers. I don't know where to go to get the answers. So I'm going to pass. I'm just going to go ahead like everybody else. There's a couple hundred million people going and living, having a good time. And I can do the same thing. And I can do the same thing. I can do without this. And it's not easy to do without it. Not that you want it. Something happened to you. You were involved, whether you wanted it or not. And here you are. Now what are you going to do with it? I discussed it with two people in ten years. My father was one of them. And after I got through, I spoke to him for several hours. I told him everything. And he said, you didn't have to be in the Air Force

for it to happen. I looked at him. I said, what are you talking about? Have you been there? Do you know him? And he said, do you remember when you were back in prep school?

[40:00] Tracking UFOs and official reactions

And I had just finished a... I was reading a book. And I read this book. And he said, and I recommended it to you. And he said that I thought it was an excellent work. And I said, well, that's a long ways to go. Hey, Dad. And he says, what do you mean four years isn't long? He said, it was longer than four years. It was longer than four years then. It was about ten years. And he said, he said, I told you to read a WASPI. And I said, oh, yeah. I remember now. And he said, you didn't read it though. I said, no, I didn't. And I said, it didn't pertain to my interests at the time or my school studies. And so I never got around to it. He said, you'll find much of what took place, of what the statements were in there. Well, I've just recently started the book. It's about 30 pages. It's not easy reading, not by my opinion anyway. I'm into it about 30 pages and I'm already finding things. It's in there, parts of it anyway, much of it. I also understand

there's two different editions of this book and one is not as correct or not correct and the other one is, but I'm not sure which one is or isn't. This doesn't make it too easy. I hope I don't have to read two of them. It's a long book. Thank you. This was just the first part of it because the real testing was coming into being. For about two months after we were off the assignment, we began to associate, we figured we could live with this thing. The three of us, the other two, Paulus and I talked about it quite a bit. And we decided that we couldn't help each other very much. The answers weren't here. It was just opinion against opinion. We could only confirm what all of us had seen and heard. So where do you go from here? The colonel wouldn't talk to us. And about two months later, he called me up and he said, come on over, I want to talk to you. And I figured, well, boy, maybe this is it. Maybe these are the answers.

When I got over there, Orton and Verlinde had already gotten there and he was, the colonel was very nervous. Just pacing up and down. And he said, I've got to talk to somebody. He said, I've got to let you know what's happening. And we've just sat there with bated breath as to, well, let's have it. And he said, I've got to make a decision. He said, I'm not asking for your help in making the decision. He said, I'll do that myself. He said, I just want to associate with somebody who can understand. He said, I think you fellows are the only ones that I can do it with. He said, I have found the truth. And then he made a statement which I think he was making for his own benefit as well as ours. He said, I am an officer in this government and this armed forces, the United States Air Force. And he said, I have a duty and a responsibility and an image to maintain. And he said, the truth doesn't agree with it. He said, I've got to go one way or the other.

He said, I can't live with both. He said, I don't know what they do with what's happening, but it's not getting out. And he said, that's all. And it was. He wasn't going to discuss anything else. He said, we'll see you later. And bid us good night. And so what we thought was going to happen didn't happen at all. Except we didn't realize that he had opened the door. And we were in for almost, well, about ten months of experiences of his that he related to us concerning these things. And it was several weeks later before he called again. And this time he called and he said, come on over. And he said, I'm going to let you in on it. And we went over. I got there and the other fellows came in. We sat down and he told us that this wasn't new to him by any means. He'd been on this for quite a while. He said the communication wasn't the first time, but it's the first time that anybody else had been along when he had communication.

He said that he had innumerable experiences with him. He felt that his experience was invaluable as far as the procedures of the government of the Air Force and now in tracking them and pursuing them because of it. And then he started to relate some of the experiences to us. It seemed by his statements that the experiences were always three or four months old. They hadn't just happened. And most of them, they varied little except for the time, the place, the weather conditions, and the speeds or the shape of the objects. He explained to us that saucers were incapable of flying from planet to planet. He said they can't do this because they operate in the electronic fields surrounding the planet. And he compared this to a current of electricity in a piece of wire. In other words, if you take a piece of wire and you conduct electrical current through that wire, and you can control the speed of that flux of the current

by resistance. Now, by inverting that theory, we pass the wire through the field and control the speed by resistance once again. I guess it didn't work quite that easy. But this is how he compared them. He says this is how they operate. He said even though the electrical fields overlap between planets, he said they're not strong enough at the outer distances. And so these saucers are carried by motherships. He said the motherships were up to 10 miles long. They would carry as many as 300 saucers. They had several thousand of crews. And he said they all came from different planets. He said they even came from planets outside this galaxy. He said it only took a few minutes to go from here to another planet because a mothership was capable of speed of light, in which time becomes infinity. There is no time passage as such, as we know it anyway. The one experience that he related to us, which I think was outstanding,

was the contact he had with them. When he spoke with them, he saw them. And he related this to us the very next day after it happened. He had taken a... He called me up and he was very excited. He said, get over here fast. And I did. And he said, I've seen them. I said, I've seen them? He said, yeah. He said, I've been on board the saucer. He said, I talked with them. He said, I talked to a guy called a master. This is the most fantastic mind I've ever spoken to. And we said, we'll settle down, Pete. Let's hear it. So he said that he had a cross country the night before and he was flying to Luke Air Force Base. That's at Phoenix, Arizona. And he said that on the way down, it was uneventful. Nothing had taken place. He said, but... And he put it this way. He said, I don't know what you think about dreams. He said, now, don't get me wrong. I wasn't asleep. He said, I was wide awake. He said, but I had a daydream or a sequence thing

or whatever you want to call it. He said, but I had a little sequence thing in which I imagined or dreamed that after I got landed at the field and went into operations, that they told me that they had reserved a staff car for me. And this is not unusual for me. This is not unusual for a man of his rank. And they told him that they had reserved a motel room for him. That's not unusual. He said that after he got to the motel, however, the room clerk told him the name of the room, the number of the room. And he said that at 7.30 that night, there was a knock on the door and he said that there was two men were at the door that he had never seen before. And he said, that's where it ended. So as far as much as I had received as such, he said, that's all I knew about it. Well, he said that when he got down there, he landed and he went into operations and they told him that they had reserved a staff car for him.

And he said, I pass that off just a coincidence. And he said, they told me they had reserved a motel room for him. And he said, even though it was the same name of the motel, he said, I pass that off to coincidence. There's just so many motels down there at that time. And he said, but when I got to the motel and the room number coincided, he said, I started getting upset. He said, I figured that's three out of three is going pretty strong. And he said, I took a hot bath and I tried to settle down or laid down and tried to read. And he said, after a while, he said, I couldn't get my eyes off that clock. And he said, in the 7.30, there was a knock on the door. And he said, I didn't know whether to go to the door or out the window. He said, I figured I'd been through an awful lot. And then maybe this is it. This is too much. He said, I knew I was perhaps reading into it. And he said, I went to the door. He said, and I opened the door.

And he said, there were two young fellows standing there. He said, about college age. And he said, they had suits on, hats. And he said, the only unusual thing about them was their eyes. He said, their eyes looked as if they could look right through them. And he said, the one fellow, he said, they addressed him by his name and rank. And they introduced to themselves. And they said that their names were Mike and Dave, for all practical purposes. And they said that, well, he said that the fellow who was speaking called himself Mike. He extended his hand, shook his hand. He said, I extended mine. I shook hands with him. And he said, the only definition I can use, he said, is a feeling that went through me when I did it. He said, it was love. He said, that's all I know. He said, I've never experienced anything like that between a man and a woman in my life. He said, that's just what it was. He said, I put my life in his hands at that moment.

He said, if he told me to jump off the Empire State Building, I would have done it. And I wouldn't have been hurt. And he said, I didn't know what I was in for, but I no longer feared anything. And he said, we went outside. And he said, we got in a car, a Chevy car. And he said, we drove outside of Phoenix. And he said, they were informing me that they were taking me aboard a saucer. And that they were going to allow him an audience with a man they called a master. And he said that they told him that a master was the highest physical thing. That this was the highest form physically of intelligence. And then after that, an individual becomes a god ether. And they said that he had performed well in his duties.

And this is why he was being allowed this audience. And they said that he could figure possibly on a half hour so he could prepare any questions that he wanted to ask. And he said he was trying to focus and trying to be objective about it. And so he said that it was pretty exciting. And he said they got out of Dubai. He figured about 18 miles out of the city. And he said they left the main highway and they drove off on the little road into the desert. And he said after a while, in that area, the topography of the land is very rolling. It's very hilly. And it was growing dusk, he said. And they had turned the lights on, the headlights on in the car. And he said they drove off the road. He said and after a while, he said they, because they came over a bluff. He said the car stopped. He said they hadn't turned the switch off though. Turned the lights off. But the lights and the engine stopped. And he said he could look out and he could see at the bottom of a valley, so to speak, there.

He said there was a saucer sitting there on tripods. He said it was on three legs. This was about 150 feet in diameter. And he said it was just sitting there, that's all. And he said they got out of the car. And when they did, these two fellows took their suits and hats off. And he said in their shirts. And they had a one-piece jump-type suit on underneath. And he said this was in one piece, including the shoes. And that they wore a belt. And the belt had a metal disc in it, in the center of it. And he said they produced one of these metallic discs for him. And they told him to hold it between the palms of his hands. And he showed it to us like this. And he had the disc. He still had it. And he showed it to us. And he said to hold it between the palms of his hands and hold it to his stomach. And this would guarantee no ill effects in passing through the force field. As they entered the saucer. And he said they walked until they were about 80 feet from the saucer.

And they stopped. And they just stood there. And he said, I started to talk. And they just looked at me. And that was enough to say, let's just be quiet for now. And he said after a moment, he said there was sort of a ramp where he came down to the saucer. And a man came down to it. And he said the fellow stood out there. And he said although there was no verbal uttering going on, it was fairly obvious that they were discussing things. That they were talking things over. And he said they then turned to him. And they said it's all right. Everything's okay. We can go aboard. And he said they walked toward to the ship. He said the man had come outside, had already gone back in. They all walked in there. And he said the entire place glowed. Like there was no concentration of light as we know it here. We see it in these bulbs. It's the ceilings, the floor, and the walls. They all glowed in. They were equal. He said they took him first to the control section, the center section of it.

And he described to us. And he said they described fairly well to him exactly how the things operate. Their speeds and their controls. He said they had many control systems that were similar to ours already. Their use of television and radar and such. They had these systems also, he said. He said they also told him about scout ships. They were unmanned. They were merely instrument packages. He said these things were just four or six feet in diameter. And they could send these out and control them. Radio control them. And put them into an area where they would be undetected. Where the larger craft would be spotted. And he said they could send these in and they would relay information back. In other words, they would send back telecast just as we would from a telestation. And produce it on the screen. There in the saucer. And they could see it. He said they took him into an outer room then. And informed him that it was about time for his audience.

And he said that he walked into this room. He said it was always difficult when you changed rooms. He said to tell whether the lights just went on or whether they were already on. He said but it seemed to be always new brilliance. And he said the lights were particularly strong. But not uncomfortable. He said they sat down on a bench affair on the outside. And he said he could tell they were on the outer perimeter because the roof slanted. And he said they sat there for a few minutes. And after a few minutes, two women came into the room. And he said that, he said, you know, I, by all, he said, by the way you fellows think.

He said, well myself too. He said, you know, I'm a red-blooded American boy. And he said they were pretty groovy chicks. And he said they were real beautiful women. So he said, you know, I mean, he said, after all, you know, I'm progressive. And he said I just gave in to my natural way of thinking. And he said they started laughing and giggling. And I was all of a sudden realized that they knew what I was thinking.

And he said I was very embarrassed. And he said that I went to get a cigarette. And he said that I noticed that I hadn't seen anybody smoking or even facilities for such. And they explained that it was just a nasty habit that I had here and that I would get rid of it sooner or later. And they asked me, they asked him if he was thirsty. And he said he could have drank the Red Sea Dry about then. And he said they went out and they brought him back a glass of what he would closely compare to grape juice. Said it wasn't unusual. He said, well, after I drank it. He said, well, after I said, yes, I'm thirsty. He said all of a sudden I realized that maybe they were going to bring me a glass of Bardol, you know, or a glass of lye. And maybe I wasn't ready for this. But he said it was not unpleasant at all. And he said that when they went out of the room to bring him back this glass of whatever it was, he said one fellow turned to him and he said,

How old do you think the young man is? How old do you think the young ladies are? And he said, well, I told him and I figured that they were about 18, 19, maybe 20 years old, the oldest. And he said, well, maybe you would be interested to know that the one is 78 years old and the other one's 146.

And he said, you know, that's the first time I ever thought of making love to a 146-year-old woman.

He said this time. And he said the young ladies hadn't come back the second time. And he said, but two other men came into the room and this master came in. And he said it was obvious that the master was a senior person by his dress. He said they all wore these one-piece jumpsuit outfits. He said, but they also had these little colored patches on their suit. And he said that one of the men explained that this established their degree of intelligence. You know, there is a rank of intelligence. He said that the master was introduced to him. He was told that he was, that this master was from Venus. And he said that he could, and he sat down. The master told him, he said, you may ask me any question you want. He said, but I won't necessarily answer anyone. And he said, I, of course, went into high gear again with my questions as to what I felt most important. He said, so I started repeating the questions that we had on our communication.

And he said the answers were almost the same. They were, it's the, do you believe in God? Yes, the almighty power of the universe. And he said there are many degrees of forms of gods and many above the physical, the spiritual ethers. He said they go on and on and on. And he said, but as it is related in that funny little history book called the Bible you have, he said the man, as God is, man may become. He said, this is so. He said, you will become. He said, we have all gone through the same. And he said that, he asked him what was, what was happening? What was taking place? Why they were coming? What was going to be taking place in the future? And he said that we, they have been here and they are responsible for the planet as long as it's been here. He said they're, they're assigned positions of responsibility in which they have control or are responsible for so many hundreds of millions of spirits. He said that there is a spirit.

A reincarnation was a problem because it was difficult to send so many people back. He explained that they had assumed some form of responsibility as to the condition of this planet. He said things weren't too good here. We already knew that. And he said that this was more or less a clearing house and that they sent their problem makers over here for a while. I guess we got them all. He just predicted a number of things.

He made statements pertaining to the future. Now this time, this was in 1954, these predictions were interesting, fascinating to hear. But relatively to our, personally, they weren't that important. He made a certain remark concerning California in 1967. And I don't think any one of us ever thought we'd be in California. In 1967. I'm here, it's 1966. I won't be here next year. The, he stated that there was a change of cycle that was coming about.

He said the earth went through cycles of so many thousands of years. And that as one cycle closed out, the next one started. It wasn't an abrupt action like flipping a switch. Now it's day and now it's night. But one ebbed out, the other came in. He said the coming of the new one had already started. Or was about to start at that time, it seems. And that the new one would not be in full swing until after the year, around the year 2000. He said but there would have to be many geographical changes made in preparation for this. There would have to be many changes in other systems. And he said as a result of this, there'll be many religious upheavals and political upheavals and so on. That'll be a natural consequence because the political leaders won't have answers for these things. They can only answer so many things that happen. But beyond that, it's a miracle or a work of, act of God. But all of a sudden, God's here.

He referred to Christ as Christ Jesus. And he said that he was a son of God. But not the son of God. In other words, there were many, many, many millions of sons of God in different degrees. He was just a higher degree of intelligence of a son of God than when he visited here. He said in this day and age he would be called nothing more than a clairvoyant medium. And that's all. He said most of your depictions of the miracles in the Bible are built up out of proportion. He said you could actually assimilate the realization of them if you were to, so to speak, gear them back down. And it is possible. And they are happening around you every day. And they're not, you just don't label them a miracle and write them off the book. He said there would be, out of the entire thing, he said there would be much holocaust. He said at one time it was possible for civilization to save itself. He said the earth, the people of the earth, produce vibrations.

And these are positive and negative vibrations. They are vibrations of love. Of course, we know there are many forms of love. He said that the vibrations, however, were overwhelmingly so negative. The world was overwhelmingly materialistic. And they were no longer objective to things which they could not see. They'd rather have something that they can hold on to. We've come to find out, of course, ourselves, we don't possess anything. Nothing. Not even our children. It's the use of. And I think it's how we use it as well as ourselves. We're sort of licensed to operate ourselves here. I'm not sure which department issues this license. But we have the use of the land, we have the use of the air, the use of the water, it would seem. There's no tax to be paid on this except to the, shall we say, the universal law of cause and effect. He went into some degree in this in explaining what we have come to know now as a karmic pattern.

This is an old law of the Far East. During our communication, they made a statement pertaining to religion in which they stated, they said there are four major erroneous religious concepts on your planet at this time. And they said these are Mohammedism, Buddhism, Brahma. And Christianity. They went into, he said he defined reincarnation more specifically. He said they went through voluntarily reincarnation. He said, however, we're not quite that level of consciousness here. That most people won't even accept it, let alone know how to utilize it. Or how to utilize the past lives. He said reincarnation is just as simple as grade school. He said you go to first grade and you study the subject matter. At the end of the year, you take the examination. And one of three things happens. Number one, you pass. And you go on to the next grade. The next higher step. A higher opportunity. Number two, you fail the test.

And you take the grade over. In other words, you come back, you get another vehicle, another body, and go through again. A second chance. Number three, you fail the test. You fail the test. Or you failed earlier in the schedule and you drop out. And you drop out and you float around for hundreds, maybe thousands of years. Before coming to a state of awareness that you can come back. And then eventually coming back. He said if you'll examine your child prodigies and your intellects of your younger people. He said you will find, number one, you'll find many of the answers there. And he said you'll also find that a child, upon close investigation, until they are about three or four years old, has vivid recollections of their past lives.

He said it won't take much investigation for you to find this out. He said study your own children. He said many of the little stories they're telling aren't stories. It's already happened to them. Went into diet. He said they were vegetarians. They did not consume meat. The animals contain spirit bodies just as we do. We contain a spirit. He said we do not believe in destroying the vehicle of the spirit or altering their karmic pattern. He said that they did not believe in inebriation. He did not say we don't drink. He said he didn't say they didn't drink. He just said they didn't believe in intoxicating the body. That's how they worked it. The predictions he stated at that time. They discussed Cuba. They said that an island that's close to the southeast of the United States would be taken over by the bear. He said he always referred to them as the great bear, the Russians. And he said that a major conflict would arise out of a seemingly insignificant war,

or just an insignificant conflict in the southeast theater of Asia, which we might call Vietnam. And he said this would advance. He said this would seemingly be very small and insignificant, but it would advance to the stage which would be a major war, he said, between the three major powers, in which, he said, the great bear will join with the Americas against the Orientals. Now remember back in 1954, about the biggest threat China had of winning a war was throwing rice. And now they have nuclear power. Now this to me is not nearly the threat that germ warfare is. It's true they still don't have an air force. They don't have a navy. They don't need it. All they need is a couple of submarines. And get close enough. And you've got epidemic. We can bring it in ourselves. We still import enough things from China. We could import the entire death and destruction of this country. You know how big a germ is? You know how big a germ is?

People say, what's a flu epidemic? That's just as fast as it spreads. It goes pretty fast, doesn't it? Germ warfare can wipe out a nation just as fast. Not sick, dead. You say, so what? You're coming back anyway. The overtures of this entire thing, the seeking, and then the why, what to do, where do we go from here? He stated that this master told him that out of the entire Holocaust, seven million people would survive. You know what seven million is in the population of the planet? It's a drop in the bucket. Very few. He said, how will they survive? He said, they will be the ones who will find their own salvation. He said, they will heed the warnings. He said, what do you mean by warnings? Well, he had made a prediction. He stated that there would be a major land change in Southern California in 1967. He said, but there would be two warning signs. He said, 90 days before this, the volcanoes of Pelee or Vesuvius will erupt.

And he said, when this happens, he said, for those who heed it, he said, they'll move. For those who don't, they'll find the Southern Californians, he said, inundated under the waters of the Pacific Ocean. He said, these waters will extend inland northward as far as Salt Lake City, Utah. That's an awful lot of land. That's a lot of people. That takes care of seven million right there, mop, mop. Well, how many more? He said, there'd be major land changes, geographical changes all over the planet in preparation. It was of interest to me. I see a gentleman friend of mine seated in the back there who showed me an article a few weeks ago, who, this article was just a clipping from one of the back pages of the Herald Examiner here in Los Angeles. I don't know how many of you saw it. But the article said very simply, in just two little columns and about so long, it says 15,000 people killed in a tidal wave. 15,000 people.

To me, a life is a life. I don't like to see an American kill in Vietnam any more than his father or his mother. But I think that 15,000 people killed in a tidal wave deserves more than this much space on page 28 in the Herald Examiner. That's an awful lot of people. What happened? Why did it happen? The article is stated relating how an island emerged out of the Pacific Ocean off the coast of Chile, witnessed by many people, and it's still there. It didn't go back down. It's still there. An island 60 miles long. In some other predictions or prophecy, as you may, it is stated that before the continent of Pan, the greater part of the Pacific Ocean, emerges from the Pacific, there would be an emergence of land mass in the southern Pacific. When an island comes up out of the Pacific, that's land mass. There are many ways you can interpret or misinterpret many things. And it's very difficult to be objective at times,

to be realistic. And you say, first we want the facts. Then what do we do with them? He said it's too late. He said it's too late for the planet as a whole. He said by the time your children are four to five years old, they are so thoroughly indoctrinated to prejudice, hatred, distrust, selfishness, he said that you've blocked the doors to them. He said there's your only hope. He said we begin educating our children when they're three months old. And by the time they're 15 years of age, they've mastered telepathy. And he never did. And this colonel never did this. He never dictated to us. He never said at any one time, this is so, this is the way it will be, this is what you have to do. He never said that. He said here it is. Do what you want with it. Take it or leave it. We were separated in 57, and I went back to Connecticut, which is my home state. And I had given him the address of my parents back there. And I went into business in Connecticut.

And for two years, I thought, just bury it, just bury it. Don't think about it. And a number of little things happened, and their subject comes up, and you can't talk about it, so you don't. And you sit there and you say, well gee, I wonder what it would be worth if they knew what I knew. If it would help them any. And you say, well no, I better not. So you just sit there and listen to them talk about it. In 1959, in September, my mother called me at the office. She said, I've got a telegram here from Colonel so-and-so. I said, well open it and read it to me. And so she did. And he was at the Westchester County Airport at White Plains, New York. And there was a phone number there, and I called him. He says, come on down, let's get together. And he sounded very happy. So I did. I went right down and I saw him. And he was very happy. He was probably the happiest man I've ever seen. And we went over old times for a few minutes,

and I said, what's happening? And he says, I've made it. I made the grade. I said, I'm going on. I said, oh, did you get a promotion? And he says, no, I'm going with them. And I said, boy. I said, it's been a while. Let me sit down for this. What do you mean by going with them? He says, I'm going with them, just the way it sounds. And I said, how much time do you have? And he said, about 30 days. He says, within 30 days I'm going. Well, we talked about other things, and he came up to the house a couple of times. And if he wasn't at the base, I called the base every day from then on, twice a day, sometimes three times a day. And on the 27th day, and sometimes I'd call and he wouldn't be there, of course. And I'd leave a message, and he'd call me. And he'd call me back. And it's like waiting for a baby, except in reverse. You're waiting for somebody to leave. And you're happy about it? You wonder. I told him, I said, you don't seem to be upset about this.

You don't have any fear. And he said, Mel, I'm probably the happiest man you'll ever know. He said, I'm looking forward to this like a kid to Christmas. He said, I'm going, and I know it. He said, that's a terrific feeling, let me tell you. He said, but I know where I'm going, I guess that helps. I said, do you really? Do you really know where you're going? He said, wherever it is, it's right. And whatever it is, he said, I found it. And he said, let me tell you, you keep seeking and you'll find it. And he said, just don't ever misuse it. Don't ever misinterpret it. Always be objective, never dictate with it. And he said, you'll find the truth. Well, on the 27th day, I called down there, and they told me that he was out, and they took a message and didn't call me. And he didn't call me back. So I called again, and they said, no, he was overdue. He was on a mission, and he was out over the Atlantic Ocean. And so I waited, and I called back,

and they said, no, he was reported missing, assumed. And I said, well, have you launched search? And they said, yes. I said, is it major or minor search? And they said, we can't tell. They said, it's minor search. And I said, well, how long to major? They said, we can't tell you that. A search is a very expensive proposition of man and materials. And it may cost $40,000 to search for somebody just in a matter of hours. And they just don't call a major search right away. There's so many hours on a local search, a minor search, and then they go into the major search. So I asked him how far the major search was off, and he told me so many minutes. And this answered my question in another way. So I said, fine. And so I called back in the morning, and they said, no trace, presumed loss. And after so much time, of course, the search time is off, and it's off, it's finished. And I asked them if there was anything, and they said, no, no trace.

To my knowledge, they haven't. They haven't found him. Never did. This is, of course, nothing. There's nothing original about this. There is some 800 military personnel disappear every year without report of where they are or where they went. This is in the air.

[01:20:00] Further discussion and surviving transcript close

I don't know how many have disappeared on the ground. I am now associated with a man who resigned his position in Washington just two months ago, who was with this assignment. He was one of the heads of this. He says from all the other camps, I don't know which one of them is here, but he's the head and this is him. And so this is the secret. This is the secret. This is what he says. But this is really, really the secret. And I want you to believe these things, and to sit and listen to the things that he tells makes this mild. And he wants to get it out, too. But it's not easy. but you're willing, you're glad to have you ask any. Roberta, how do you want that handled?

We'll have a very brief intermission, folks, because our time is running late. Will you turn in any questions, written questions, that you have to ask Mr. Noel, and get out your tickets that you received at the door. We'll have some prizes here in a few minutes for a drawing. I'll read the question and then try to give you an answer and opinion, one or the other.

Do the British and Russians have the same hush-hush policy as our government, and if so, why? As far as governments of the world are concerned, information at this time is that governments are in much closer contacts and much more closer point of agreement in policies than we would imagine. That is to say that... Even as far as war is concerned, this is a control factor for population, materials, and economic scale, shall we say. It's a way that was discovered not recently, but many thousands of years ago, of maintaining a high economic situation. And as far as the information concerning sauces are concerned, we find that the Netherlands, Sweden, and Brazil have come out... openly presented the information, the facts of the matter, the facts that they exist. I understand that it's being taught in the schools in the Netherlands.

Pertaining to geographical changes, California. Was all of California to be unindated? I understand. I have some fault maps, which are available, by the way, from the California Bureau of Mines. Anybody can write and receive these maps. They come in two sections. The... Matter of fact, if you're interested... How many are interested in obtaining these fault maps? Let me get you the address. State of California, Department of Natural Resources, Division of Mines. You want Bulletin 158, Plate 1 and 2. I'll go over that again. State of California, Department of Natural Resources, Division of Mines, Bulletin 158, 158,

Plate 1. You'll have to get that information from the telephone information or from central information in Los Angeles. I don't have a more specific address. I'm sorry. I would assume Sacramento. I would think so. These are for the fault maps of California. California alone. It's... I don't know if you can see this from there. There is no price on the maps.

I think they're available free of charge. Just for the request. And that's reasonable. You can't beat that. I don't know if you can see how many lines there are on that map. That's how many faults there are in California. This is a major fault area. The state of Utah has more faults than any other state in the Union. Some of these are major, some minor. The St. Andrews and the Gartluck faults are the biggest ones here.

Pertaining to the question, was all of California to be undated? It seems... Pertaining to the information related to me? No. The southern portion. In other words, approximately the lower half of the state. I'm being very brief with this because in order to be specific, I would have to have a map here to outline the areas of the Sierra Nevada mountain range and some of the other mountain ranges as to how it would fall because there is a great valley here that would certainly go down. It would seem that the series of events will be an earthquake. There will be a settling of land mass and then it will be followed by a tidal wave and then the resurge of the tidal wave of the water will draw much of the land out. On one of these maps, you have a topography. I shouldn't say topography. That's an elevation, but you also have a depth gauge on here as to the descents off the coastline. We're on a shelf. You don't have to go out very far, and the depth out here is 2,000 feet.

It drops very, very fast, which means that a shelf can drop. It just merely settles. It goes right down. It's like these slides in Pacific Palisades. The entire coast is just like that. In other words, the side of the hill settles down. Please be more specific about the sign when Pele and or Vesuvius erupts. He did say and or Vesuvius or Pele. He merely stated the eruption of these volcanoes. Not a sign, but the eruption of these volcanoes. Either one, and within 90 days, it would happen.

Question, what is the lifespan of space people? I don't know. It would seem from certain comments that he made that they control this more than anything. He mentioned that they go through voluntary reincarnation through cell degeneration. In other words, they actually reduce themselves back to the atomic state in a matter of minutes. He said they can do this at any time. He said they usually do this in cycles of 50 years because the younger body learns faster and that they renew this cycle at that time. He did say that the average appearance of them was that when they were about 80 years of age, they would appear to be in their late teens, related to what we know. Can you elaborate and or comment on the piece of wrapping paper incident as involved with a gun camera shot in one of the earlier X-15 flights? Message on object, which it actually bore. I just recently, just a matter of a few days, received through a very good friend

who invented the cameras used on the X-15, a 3-millimeter camera. Do you know how big that is, 3-millimeter? That's about an eighth of an inch. That's the size of the film. I think most of you have seen motion picture film. You see the perforations on the side? The perforations, the film, the frames are between the perforations. That's how small this film is. I meant to bring it with me tonight. I didn't, I was going to bring a few feet of it. This is the cameras. The cameras are about the size of a pack of cigarettes. He was showing me the different cameras that he's developed for this project. Some of the pictures taken, it is true. This is not, I don't think, as exciting as what happened to an X-15 for 17 minutes a couple of years ago. It disappeared. The wrapping paper incident, I'm not sure what exactly is meant by the wrapping paper incident. I'm not familiar with that term. I am aware of some of the pictures taken by X-15s, however.

I have seen pictures taken by the astronauts also. Question, is it true the government wants you to stop talking about the UFOs? And if so, why? From? Much, much, I say much, enough information to fill a room

which does not agree with the current political situation

or way of thinking of this government or many other governments is one reason. Political imagery is a situation which you have to, in essence, put up the best front,

no matter what the truth is. The government faces some bad situations that have been very embarrassing, just as much as we become involved in personally at times. The truth seems to hurt. We have to face up to it. They're running a race. Now, what this race is with or where it's going to take them would seem, from all this information, that they're going to exhaust and burn themselves out with it. And this is the only place it can take them. Now, as to whether we want to be involved in this, I don't know. I don't want to be to aid and abet that. I think there's coming to be a certain amount of awareness or consciousness on the part of many people, not just yourselves, as to what's right. It would seem at times that the Vietnam conflict, we can't call that a war, is a situation which, to pan a mind for a moment, we have two gentlemen who sit down at a table. One represents the communists. The other represents the United States.

And the one says, well, Charlie, we've got a pretty good thing going over there. He says, yeah, we're doing all right. Everybody's happy, buying new cars, refrigerators. He says, well, to tell you the truth, we could be doing better. Now, look, Charlie, how much would it take for you to kill off another 2,000 men a week? Can you handle that many? Well, wait a minute, Joe. I've got to get a lot of equipment over there. Give me a couple of weeks. I can get it up to that. Yeah. Okay, fine. Now, listen, I've got to lose 14,000 a week. What about that? You're off your quota. You promised me that, you know, and you're not coming through. Well, things have been slow. I'm having trouble with France. You know how it is. Now, let's go over the rules again. What were the rules? Well, let's see. You remember, well, the last set was pretty good. Remember Korea? I mean, that worked out pretty good. Guns. Oh, yeah, guns. Any kind of gun.

Rockets. Yeah, rockets are in. Bombs. Napalm. Yeah. Germ warfare. You got germ warfare? Well, you wouldn't tell me anyway. All right, no germ warfare. That's out. Nuclear stuff. No, we won't use that. All right, we got the rules straight. Yeah, the whole set with Korea, we put those in, but no germ warfare, no nuclear. Okay, fine. Okay, it's going good. Let's keep it going. This is about the way it looks. Why doesn't the government want me to talk about it? Because I represent. I represent the government. It's an inside story. It's not outside the door. It's not on the sidewalk. It came from inside the office. This is why. What lengths will they go to stop? I don't know. I could write a book on my experiences with the FBI so far. Only time will tell what that will bring. Question. I knew of a colonel in a UFO investigation about 1957, 58 or so who spoke in tongues. Is that your colonel? I can't answer the question. I don't know.

Question. Have you any knowledge of mass deportation of people by UFO at the time of the catastrophes?

Catastrophe. I'm sorry. I can't make out your spelling here. Well, the condition on this planet during Holocaust, I guess that's what that refers to. There has been certain information. He related himself. He stated that there would be certain numbers of people who would be deported, who would be removed safely. He said, however, it doesn't make much difference. If you're going to go, you're going to go. He said, because you just lose the vehicle, that's all. You can still come back again. He said, actually, what was spoken of as the Ark during the flood was a mothership which was evacuating thousands of individuals. He said a bit about the two of each type of thing. He said, I don't know about that. He said, but they were just, that was a mothership evacuating individuals from the time of the flood. He said, and the same thing will happen again. Question. As is obvious, the space people want to help us. Why doesn't our government go all out to accept this help and inform the people accordingly?

I think we more or less covered this before. To put it mildly, the government has got a tiger by the tail with this thing. It is leaking out. Secret. Top secret. Confidential security. Anything that's stamped with that. We used to have a stamp in operations at the field. It used to say, top secret destroyed before reading.

That's the one they got up for this. It's leaking out. If you want to find out how they control it or their means of it, any one of you can have a similar light experience with the FBI. Just pick up the phone. I'll give you the number. I know it well. And you just say, hey, I just saw a flying saucer. And they'll tell you to stay right there. Get your name and address and phone number and such. And they'll be right over. And they come right over. And it takes, well, it depends upon the individual. But they'll sit down with you. And in about a half hour, 45 minutes, they'll convince you that you're ready for the funny farm. It's, oh, yes, they get everything. Even the negatives. Just want to borrow. Question. Would you have been interested in being selected to go to the moon under the Apollo? Program. Not if the, well, I had a pretty good crew. But it, we used to have three lists of malfunction lists. Yellow, red, and black.

And yellow, if this goes wrong, you have so much time to correct it. 31 seconds, 7 seconds. But if you can't correct it, the other systems will take over the load. And it'll still operate all right. On red, you can't. It leads to a chain reaction. The systems are going. You've got so much time to get the aircraft out of a populated area and get out of the aircraft. On black, forget it. Now, on an Apollo shot, to me, I can't imagine, after all of the malfunctions and the little things,

the bugs that turn up before they make the shot, how the shots go off flawless. I have information that they don't. That there are, in essence, some 17 corrections that nobody ever knew how were made on one of the shots.

They don't know what happened. They were losing control of the thing, of the capsule in orbit. And it was corrected. Ground control, the astronauts themselves don't know what happened. They made comment to this. He made comment to this. Remember, this is back in 1954. Before, before we had astronauts. And they said, you will soon be shooting your men into the upper levels of the atmosphere. And he said, you will have to beware of the gamma rays there. He said, because it will affect them. He said, and they'll have dizziness for the rest of their lives unless they're perfectly shielded. And they do.

The answer to that, no. Las Vegas, maybe. You said that the West Coast disaster is to affect as far east as Salt Lake or Utah. How far north or south will it? How far north or south will it stretch? Well, once again, here you have to have a topography map, an elevation map. In other words, you just can't block the United States off like the state lines go, because the elevations vary so much. You have to, your map, your lines are going to run like so around the various elevations. And you really should be a geologist or a form of one or have some basic knowledge in it to understand exactly what areas are likely to settle as well as to shift and to move here and there.

I think you could decide more or less on a general area. I understand areas over 4,000 feet are relatively safe at this time. You just can't go much further down. You say, do with it what you will. I would presume maintain a high ethical standard in one's life.

Everything is a degree of interpretation. It's a degree of how much we take in. We can assimilate and what our environment has been, our upbringing. There are times when we argue with ourselves. I know I argue with myself an awful lot. This is a time when you take an issue and you say, what am I going to do? Now, if you start asking everybody else for the answer, if you ask 20 people, I find you get about 20 answers, and no two are alike. You've got to find the answer inside yourself. Now, in essence, I think that we are all a vehicle of a spirit, and a spirit is more or less a receiver, just like a radio is when you turn it on. If you turn it on, you're going to hear something. And I think if you turn your spirit on, you're going to hear something too. And I think this is, in essence, what we might say the voice of God or however you want to call it. But this, if you turn on your receiver, I think you'll find something that will give you the answers.

Please repeat the name of the...

800-page book your father told you about. O-A-S-P-E. I think you're going to catch me on that. O-A-S-P-E. Can anybody spell that? O-A-H-E-S-P-E. That's right. O-A-H-S-P-E. There it is. Can anybody help me on that? As I mentioned before, I'm not sure myself. There's a first and a second edition. Would you say that this is perhaps the second edition?

No. It seems there was some alteration, either in the manuscripts or the plates from the first or the second edition. I don't know. I wasn't there, sir.

Question. Are the angels of old similar to those space visitors and ships? Whose angels? Angels have been described by so many people as lights or a mirage or a seance, a thing, a spiritual thing. I think there's many descriptions for angels. Where does angel leave space? Spiritual and become mortal. I think these people certainly have the answers, and I think that they are possibly can even, what's the word I want there? They can control the change. Almost a will, it would seem. Not having seen them, I've never seen them, so I don't know. Have you received any message by means of ESP or otherwise of the lost colonel?

The feels are related. The feels related. to this subject are almost unlimited. They go into the political realm, the realms of medicine, of religion, spirituality, psychic, occult, even the drug market. And in essence, what they represent at times is a thousand cliffs to dive off. Take any one of them and you can interpret a great deal of what they have to fit. Many people have come to me. They came to me in the past and they said, how would you like to speak with a colonel? I said, well, and they said, we can do it. Set it up for you. Have a little meeting all together. And I attended a number of these and basically they were one form or another of the spiritual seance. Some used different vehicles or tools, others didn't. Before each one of these, I would ask them, I said, you know, to tell you the truth, I don't know where the other two pilots are, Orton or Verlinde. And I would just as soon know their addresses, their locations at this time, which is very important to me.

And I said, if you can produce this for me, I will be just as happy with your authenticity as if you produced the colonel. In truth, I would be more pleased. Well, they produced many voices and produced many other things. They never produced the addresses of these two other pilots. And I found them just by accident the day after Thanksgiving last year. But I have located them after seven, how many, four, eight years. With the exception of one individual. And this woman shook me up real good just a few weeks ago. And I'm not too, if I may pardon the expression, hip on these things. On people who can give you a reading. I'm not familiar with even the hows or the mechanics behind it. I'm no detective. I don't know how to tell the real one from the bad one unless I have some results. But this woman penned me from day one right through the future. Came up with a thousand things. Spoke of places, times, incidences, people

that I had known. Done things with. When it came to the colonel, I asked her what she could tell me about a man named Colonel Peterson. Now, she was totally unaware of who I was or what my experiences had been before this. She thought for a minute and her first question to me was, do you know how he died? She didn't know he was dead. And I said, I said, no. She said, to your knowledge, have they ever found the body? And I said, no. She said, the injury. She said, he didn't die in the regular way that we know it. She said, it's funny. She said, he's still in his physical form. She said, he wants to talk to you very badly. She said, he does. He's been trying to reach you for a long time. She says, and he's near you. She said, you're going to be talking to him within the year. She said, but there'll be two men come to see you before then to prepare you. Well, this... She had already told me all of these several hundred things

about things that I had done, people I knew, and things that I had done, funny things, embarrassing things. I don't know. The odds are phenomenal. She really struck it home. Time will tell. She made a number of other predictions. To my knowledge, I have not corresponded with him in any way, shape, or form. I am unaware of it if I have. Perhaps he can read my mind. No, I don't know. Question. Was there any indication of what the warning would be to the geographical change in 1967, only as to the two volcanoes, Pelee or Vesuvius? Question. Could these UFOs be our own experiment, and is the Air Force evaluating public reaction on observation and how different possible explanations at... Are they... I see, I think they see. Explanations. Explanations, as far as being an Earth-bound thing. At this time, there are a number of aircraft corporations, Hughes, Bells, North American, and some Eastern firms, who are on heavy government contracts on anti-gravity.

This is the assignment. Find the way to control gravity. I thought it was most ironic a few weeks ago when Dick Tracy, the space coop, in a little block, in the bottom of one of the cartoon cuts there, there was a statement, and it says, the nation that controls gravity controls the world. And I thought it was ironic to put that in a comic strip. It certainly would have some influence. You could spring everybody loose. I understand that MIT has developed

the system, a propulsion unit, to control a small model, an instrument package, with the same means of control. I understand that they cannot develop it. The weight of it is too much to develop, to lift a payload. In other words, to put a man in it. However, they are working on the system. As to how any other system, jet, internal combustion, steam, nuclear, any other form of propulsion, could accomplish the things that we saw, I don't think it could be done. We have developed a saucer appearing,

which is the saucer we see on the screen, as well as a helicopter who was propelled by an aircraft. And it is a saucer. You have a helicopter, and you have a pedometer, and you have a helicopter, and you have a kite, and you have a flying engine and stuff. The green thing has been put up. We have a helicopter in the sky, and, I don't know, we have a plane in the sky, and we have the first flight of a drone. We have a helicopter in the sky, and we have a plane in the sky, and we have a plane going by. I have had the pleasure of using that helicopter with a blue and green tail. Now if the helicopter is not flying, I have to go into another space. And I have to go to another space. relations to many religions. They'll say, are you Mormon? Are you Mohammedan? Are you Buddhist? Are you this or that? I say, my answer to them is, I am a roaming Christian. I accept, I believe God, but I do not follow any particular concept of it.

His statement, their statement also to us was that there are many original truths in all of these religions, but they are so buried and misconceived and misinterpreted that it would be a lifetime alone just trying to sift it out. And this is the problem, the sifting, this constant sifting to try and find the truth out of it. I am not well-worded or that familiar with the Baha faith to draw the parallels myself, so I don't know. It may be very true. Question, you stated you wouldn't be in California in 1967. Question, where will you be? Answer, I don't know.

I haven't decided at this time. It will be a high elevation, I can guarantee you that.

Several friends of mine and I are building aircraft right now, just for our own use, just in case. Question, what area or direction would you head or what country? Once again, I refer to this just basically, the elevation of 4,000 feet or over. It seems that this is the best. Question, do you know of a spacecraft reportedly at Edwards Air Force Base? I have heard that it is under guard in a large hangar. I have talked with military who have stated that there have been not one but several space saucers at Edwards Air Force Base. The, actually, I think there's a lot of talk about Edwards Air Force Base out here because it's in California. The actual base, which is designated for all this type of thing, for all the evidence, physical evidence pertaining to saucers, is at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio. That's their material command. And this is where they take everything and put the top secret on it. And from things that I have heard,

they have really got quite a museum there. It's, I haven't been there. I don't think I have a ticket. I'll go to the gate when I get there if I win. Especially me. Question, you said the Christian religion was wrong. What religion is right? No, I did not say that the Christian religion was wrong. The, it would seem that the, once again, that these religions, all of them, contain the original truths or universal laws as such, but they are not correctly interpreted. They have gotten, uh, materialistic. They have changed the objectives to other things, which are easier. I was reading an article the other day by an Indian, a Hindu, and he, he said, you know, church, he said the objective of church is merely make people think happy, just to make them think secure. Don't give them the truth, because they don't want it. He says this scares the daylights out of them. Now what good is that going to do? Who wants to go around scaring people?

A successful church is the one that makes the most people feel at ease. This is the one that can give them a way of life to go by the easiest rolling wheelchair. It's about what it amounts to. And there are many churches that do this, of course. Now that church, it doesn't mean that church was founded on those principles, but they have always preached those things. We have seen radical changes in the last few years in a number of the, the churches, the beliefs of this, of this, this earth. We see a breaking up of the old and the new, the modern, as they call it. I heard a lecture delivered a few months ago on a man who was defining squares and exactly what a square is. By all his definitions, it paid off to be a square. It probably does. The, I don't know, I think I've gotten all these questions. I was sorting them out, basically. Oh, wait a minute, here's some more. Oh, wait a minute. You mentioned that your radar vectored you to a target

not available by the human eye, not visible by, but photographed by infrared, explain. No, I did not say that we were vectored by radar. We were not. To my knowledge, we had no control from ground control, no directions from ground control. It was possible, I said, to be vectored by radar on a target and to shoot it with infrared film and to produce a picture that you could not see. We were not, though. Question, where are you building your racetracks? Is that right? I don't know what this means. I don't know what that,

I'm building two race cars. I'm not building any racetracks. Any other means of power

or guidance in flight? I assume this pertains to a saucer. There are many theories on this, by the way, and it, I don't know exactly what the answer to it is. It would seem there are many theories. Some make more sense than others, and it's not inconceivable that the, they could use several means, any one of several means to do it. I've heard of the, the solar energy theory as well as the local electrical field theory, gas theory, nuclear theories. A question, are you able to give out any other geographical changes coming to Earth as foretold by the master? This pertained mostly to Europe and to Japan. He stated that in 67 that the same fault line that would open here runs through the Pacific Ocean and up through Japan and it would take the greater part of Japan with it.

That's repeating.

I think that about covers it. I've categorized most of these. Is there anybody that had a question here that was not answered or that, I said what again?

This is what information I have. I understand that they have been delivered voluntarily,

although in one exception, I know it seems that one crashed and was captured that way. It was recovered from, the wreckage was recovered. They're not perfect either it seems. It seems they're not perfect either. They malfunction also.

Not having been there, I don't know. There's an awful lot of information that's pertaining to this hollow Earth theory and there's, I think you can build, if you take two people and say, here you take the pro and you take the con, we could build quite a case on either side, for and against it. My opinion, I'm neutral. I'm right down the middle at this point. I've investigated. It's to the source. I mean, as far as I can go to the source, there must be much more as far as the source is concerned. But I'll, and I'll keep going to find the answer about that. But right now, I'm in the middle of the road on that.

Disc, round, oval. That's right. Much, no a disc. It looked like a miniature saucer. It wasn't a scale model as such. It was a completely polished disc. And he submitted this, to a metallurgy laboratory, for examination. And their report was most interesting, as to, of course, they wanted to know where he got it. Well, I don't know what he did with that. He's gone, so I don't know. One more question? I understand, yes. I've seen some photographs, allegedly taken by Scott Carpenter, that were fairly close up. I don't know how these could have been duped, because they were taken through the window of the capsule, and you can see the earth below. Similar to the pictures that you would see in Life magazine, in other words, the distance and the position of the capsule, in relation to the earth's surface. But the saucer was right there, right outside. One more.

My, uh, from what information I have received is that we are not capable of operating them. That we can study them. We are attempting to assimilate from that, from the information received from the study, to construct or to evolve to that point. However, to my knowledge we have not been able to operate one at this point. I've had information, for some, for some odd years, the effect that Canada has had, two of them, which they obtained as gifts, and that they have these in concrete bunkers in the inland. And they've studied these for years, but they haven't come up with the answers yet.

This may interest some others besides you. I'm having an interview tomorrow evening with a gentleman who was in New York City during the blackout who states that he had a contact and had saw saucers there and was told by this contact. Now this man, I won't say his name, this man is a very big figure. What did you read? Where's the paper from? I wonder if it got out here. Yes. That's right. Yeah. He's a well-known actor. And I wanted to compare what he's going to tell me. That's all. But I'm sorry, I don't know who's talking. My opinion, yes.

That's my opinion, sir. I don't know. I haven't been there to see him yet.

It's really a demonstration. That's, once again, an opinion. I don't know. I think our defense needs an awful lot of help as far as protection. Question?

Once again, I haven't been there, but I don't know how to answer that. I don't know. Unless you could find somebody that's been there. I mean, we've been so wrong, so wrong, totally wrong about the moon, space, other planets, from what little we've seen, what little we've brought back, what little we've sent back. It's reversed the theories and the way of thinking of scientists, nuclear physicists, and mathematicians of all these years. And these men are going around shaking their head now. I was talking to a nuclear physicist who works at Vandenberg Air Force Base a couple of months ago, and he says, you know, he said, if we've reversed a dozen, we've reversed at least 5,000 theories in the last few years. You know what I'm saying? This is how fast they're changing now with what they're finding out there. And much of it is just the opposite of what they thought before.

What was the name of the book?

He talked about this vacuum created with a ray. Yes, he described this to us. This is above my mathematics and chemistry. I can't get up that far. But he explained it fairly well for us to understand. This eliminates, of course, the gravity, yaw, drag, and lift. Is there any other questions? I know it's getting late. You've all been here a long time and very patiently. One more. This is it. What happens to the photographs of UFOs?

If there are photographs, if you can get them to somebody else before the FBI gets to you, then there's a chance they'll get out. If they get to you first, as far as government photos are concerned, the only way they're going to get out is somebody from the inside getting them out. We saw this. We saw hundreds and hundreds of photographs and hours of motion picture film taken from jet, from gun cameras. But that film has never been released. Never been released. And won't be.

We thank all you wonderful people for coming out tonight. I know you enjoyed it. There's no question about that, I'm sure. God bless you, each one.