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1962 June 1st Kfi Radio Show Other Side Of The Day Dan Fry 41m P263

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[00:00] Opening remarks and introduction

Time is five minutes past twelve now, and our guest on this evening's program, Dr. Daniel Fry. Dan Fry is in town here for a meeting that is taking place this weekend. As a matter of fact, I believe Friday and Saturday are the two days. We'll find out a little more about that after we say good evening to our guest. Dr. Fry, good evening, and welcome to the other side of the day. Good evening, Ron. Now, you are here, I don't know if you're here specifically for these meetings that are taking place, but the meetings are Friday and Saturday, if I remember right, at the embassy, isn't that correct? Well, Friday being the night that's just passed. There's only tomorrow, this convention will take place, I understand, all day tomorrow. Are you giving a talk tomorrow? Yes, I will be giving a talk, I believe, at 6.30 in the evening. Do you spend a lot of time going across the country on these lecture tours, so to speak?

Not comparatively, that is, it's not my regular occupation by any means. If it were, I would have started it at the long time ago. I make... I make a reasonably good living as a developer and previously as a designer of control instruments for jet aircraft and guided missiles. I think this gets us into the basic subject that we want to talk about tonight, your interest in guided missiles and aircraft and things in the air. This convention that's going on right now deals primarily with unidentified flying objects. When did you first get interested in the general field of the UFOs? Well, I first became interested, of course, when... when at White Sands Proving Grounds near Las Cruces, New Mexico. And almost all, I think, of the listeners are well acquainted with this and as much as I have gone into this at least four times on this program for all of the listeners. But that was where I first became interested,

when I had the opportunity to observe a sampling device that was quite apparently not created here on this planet. Were you convinced that there are such things as unidentified flying objects that come from other planets? I don't know how many of them come from other planets. I am quite sure that there are certain objects occasionally within our atmosphere that were not created or built anywhere on this planet. Now, you mentioned, you made the statement there, you don't know how many of them come from other planets. Is there a possibility they come from other countries on this planet? No, I don't think they come from any part of this planet. When I say I'm not sure that they come from other planets, the point I'm making is that we have a tendency to feel that any living organism, especially an intelligent organism, must come from a planet that is directly from a planet. Now, probably all of them do originate on planets.

But any intelligent race that achieves the ability to travel in space will, in the course of a few decades, or certainly a few centuries after having achieved that ability, will build a craft of such size and capability

[03:00] Interview segment

that they are no longer really dependent upon any planet. These craft would be closed systems. By the necessity of containing the air within them, they would have to be closed systems. Nothing would be lost from that system. If they have sufficient command of energy and sufficient technology to convert matter from the form that it is in to any form they wish it to be in for further use, this could be repeated endlessly. They would become independent of any planet as a base. The people could, especially since some of these would undoubtedly be very large, people could be born, they could live all of their life on such a craft without ever having set foot perhaps on a planet. So, in other words, these things could be, in your estimation, a completely self-sufficient unit. Life, death, everything would exist right there on this unidentified flying object. As most people refer to them, flying saucers, whether this is a good term or not, I don't know,

but it's the popular one that everybody knows it by. Because I notice often, if I talk to somebody about unidentified flying objects, they ask me what I'm talking about, and then you mention flying saucers. Oh, flying saucers, that's what you're talking about. So, the flying saucer name is rather well known. Well, then, you'd believe that if these things are self-sufficient, and life does exist on them, that they certainly, or obviously, are being built by people of a superior intelligence of some sort. Now, it's my understanding, since we've gotten into this UFO thing, and more of us have become interested in it, a lot of us became aware of it about the time of the close of World War II. But yet many people whom we've had on the program and spoken to are of the belief that these things have been around for many, many more years than just the last 15, 20, or 30 years. Do you go along with this theory? Yes. Statistically, it is almost certain.

Of course, if you mention statistics, people say, well, this isn't a statistic, isn't a direct, proof of anything, and yet it has become a very precise science. An insurance company, for instance, today cannot pretend to predict when any individual will pass away. But through the use of statistics, as they're available today, they can predict within 1 or 2 percent of how many people will every year, even though they have no idea which ones there are. So statistics can become a very precise science, one of the most precise sciences that we have. And if we apply statistics to a thing like this, we come out with some rather enlightening results. In the first place, if we take the manner in which a galaxy is presently considered to originate, that is to condense from a dark nebula, and we find galaxies in all parts of the universe today, in all stages of such condensation, we no longer believe they all were created by a single explosion of a single giant particle,

by a single explosion of a single giant particle, that contained all the mass in the universe, as Ébile Maitre proposed some centuries ago. We now see them in all stages of development. We find that in the condensation, stars appear first in the central portion of these galaxies. They have a lead time of some millions of years. They appear in the center some millions of years before stars appear in the exterior portions of the galaxy. If we assume that a certain percentage of these stars have planets, and it is now, so assumed, that quite a large proportion have planets, that this is a fairly normal form of residual condensation of the material that creates a star, that a certain percentage of it will condense into smaller bodies in orbit about the large body. So statistically, we find that we have probably about the same number of planets in this galaxy that we have stars, and that is 100 billion, approximately, in this galaxy.

If we consider what percentage of these stars will probably have conditions suitable for development of life as we know it, we do have quite a difference of opinion as there's quite a wide spread between astronomers and biologists as to what percentage would have conditions suitable for life. It will run all the way from 1 in 10 down to 1 in 100. But even if we took the most pessimistic and said only 1 in 100 would have such conditions, we would still have 1 billion planets in this galaxy alone with conditions suitable for the development of life. If we then consider the number, the probable number of such planets which have conditions suitable for life, which actually have life, again, we come into a controversy. Some will say, well, practically every planet which has conditions suitable for life will develop life sometime in the several billions of years of its existence in a condition suitable for life. In the millions of square miles,

somewhere the amino acids will be formed spontaneously, which are considered to date, to be the starting point of life. So some will say that practically every planet that has conditions suitable for life will develop at some time in its course. Others say that perhaps only 1 in 10. But again, if we take the most pessimistic statistic, we would still find that 100 million planets in this galaxy have life on them. If we consider what percentage of these that have life have developed life superior to ours, we again find the same contradiction, which is that we have a certain amount of controversy. In each stage of these statistics, we have a certain amount of controversy. So to be safe, we have to take the most pessimistic at each step down the road. Normally, we would say, well, statistically, since we only really know about life on one planet, we would have to say that half are ahead of us and half are behind.

But at this point, we have to consider our relative position in the galaxy. If we find that planets form first in the center part of the galaxy, then we have to find out where we are. And to our humiliation, we find that our little planet is at the extreme outer edge of this galaxy. It is therefore statistically certain that planets reached our stage of development several millions of years ago in the center portion of this galaxy. And if we assume that life developed there several millions of years before it developed here, we're also predicting that there were at least some hundreds and probably some thousands of planets in the center portion of this galaxy whose inhabitants achieved space travel several millions of years ago. This is the answer to the great distance that exists throughout the galaxy. You can't start out in a spaceship and visit the other end of the galaxy in a few hours, at least not by any method we can conceive of.

Not that we know of now, that's right. But in a couple of million years, a consecutive series of generations of individuals could do it. So again, statistics predict that probably our little planet here has been under occasional passing observation by such craft, perhaps for a million years or more. How frequent this is, it's difficult to say. It probably isn't as rare as we might think because if there are some thousands of planets which have conditions suitable for effort, which have actual life that developed space travel some millions of years ago, they would have produced in this time not one spaceship apiece, but probably some tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands or millions of spaceships apiece. These would radiate in all directions from the center portion of the galaxy toward the outer edge. And probably means that there's quite a bit of life circulating about this galaxy in ships of one sort or another.

It's kind of a blow to our egos because we like to think that we're the only planet they're observing. Yes, well, actually... As we for centuries have believed we were the only planet that existed, really. Yes, and we originally believed, of course, that we were at the center of the universe, that we were the only important thing in the universe. Our ego has taken blow after blow as our knowledge has increased. It's left us very little to be proud of. Originally we thought we were the center of the universe. It all revolved around us. And then we discovered that we, our planet, revolved around the sun instead of the contrary being the case. Then we found that the sun was only one star in a huge cloud of stars containing some hundred billion. And then we found that this cloud of stars in which we existed, this galaxy, was only one of some ten billion known galaxies today. So we haven't much to solve our ego. We do have one thing.

Our galaxy is one of the larger of the galaxies. The spiral galaxy in Andromeda also has about a hundred billion stars. Most of the other ones have between ten and thirty billion stars apiece. So we do have one stop left. We live in one of the larger of the galaxies. We live in a big neighborhood, in other words. Let me pause here for just a second, Dr. Frye, and I'll get back and obviously ask you a few more questions about this. As you say, you've answered the questions many times, but there are always new listeners and people who want to know. You know, many people, night owls, complaining about indigestion, heartburn, or the discomforts they feel after eating. Now here we are, we're sitting here in the middle of this big discussion about galaxies and billions and millions of stars and galaxies and the universe, and we're worried about a little thing like indigestion. But it comes right down to a very simple thing

that people do have to worry about indigestion. As long as we're here, we've got to worry about something, and indigestion can cause a lot of problems. That's why we recommend the use of enzyme capsules, a product of the Warren Pacific Corporation, the same people who bring us our great nature's favorite. Now these enzymes do the job of helping to prevent indigestion or digestive troubles before they start. They aren't pleasant tasting little capsules or tablets that coat the stomach or something. They actually go to work to break down the food you eat. If you take one enzyme capsule with each meal, in minutes the enzymes go to work. They help in the digestion of starches, protein, and the tough fiber of fruits and vegetables. Now laboratory tests have shown that enzymes are up to 50 times more effective than other commercially available enzymes. I'm talking about our Warren enzymes. And listeners to our night owl program of course

know that the enzymes have given them tremendous relief and great help. Of course the nice thing about it is you can buy a bottle of enzymes on a money back guarantee. A bottle of 90 enzyme capsules costs only $3. And they're available by mail only. You can order yours by sending $3 to Enzymes, Box 2968, Hollywood 28, California. Enzymes. E-N-Z-Y-M-E-S. Enzymes. Box 2968, Hollywood 28, California. Just send $3 to Enzymes and a money back guarantee. Our guest on tonight's program, Dr. Daniel Fry, a man who has spent much time in the observation and investigation scientifically of the subject of the UFOs which we're discussing. And the next thing that comes up of course and this is a good question, but why are we being observed? By that I mean, are they about to land? Is somebody going to take us over? Or now theory has been advanced by numerous people that we are more or less a satellite of some other planet or galaxy and they are kind of protecting us

and looking over us. Do you go along with some of these theories? Well, just a short time ago at this convention, which we spoke of a moment ago, the evening session, I was asked a similar question and created an analogy which I've done a few times before because it makes understandable so much that now simply has to be accepted because we can only understand one end of the picture. We can't understand both ends. In order to understand the entire picture, we have to begin with an analogy that we can completely understand. In approaching this analogy, I have to point out first that we have on this planet two areas one in Central Africa and one in Central Australia where there are races of human beings who have not yet achieved the bow and arrow. They still depend on the stone axe and the spear. There are many races in that area that have progressed as far as the bow and arrow and no farther. All of these are highly primitive tribes.

We have jet aircraft that occasionally fly over these areas and occasionally must be seen by these people. When they are so observed, controversy of some sort must develop among those people. We know quite a bit about them but they know almost nothing about us. These natives seeing these planes go overhead must question what they are. They must be somewhat startled, somewhat surprised. I imagine when the first native sees a plane go overhead and attempts to explain it to his compatriots, he probably becomes the greatest crackpot in the group. They can find every excuse in the world why such a thing simply couldn't exist at all. A race that can't build a bow and arrow would have difficulty in conceiving of a race that could build a jet aircraft even if they understood what a jet aircraft was. Controversy would occur if these sightings occurred often enough so that the tribe as a whole accepted the fact that something existed. At first they wouldn't

accept the fact that anything existed but as time went on and they were seen more and more, eventually would come a time when there was some general acceptance that something existed, something was going overhead. Then there would be controversy as to the nature of the thing if perhaps one of the natives suggested that it might be a mechanical object controlled by a human being, human entity, but one of a race who had achieved a much higher degree of development to the point where such things could be built. He would come into quite a bit of dispute and quite a bit of doubt among his fellow natives. One of his neighbors would say, if this was really a machine, if it were being piloted by a human being such as ourselves, and went overhead, he would look down and he would see us there. He would immediately land his craft. He would rush up to us and say, take me to your leader. We want to enter into commerce and trade. We want to get some

bones for our nose like you people have. We want to get some coils of wire to hang around our neck. So we want to enter into trade. That's what they would do if they were an intelligent being in this subject. His neighbor would say, no, that isn't logical at all. They wouldn't do anything like that. They would simply look down. They'd see that we were here, that we were helpless because we have no technology. They would simply land and conquer us, make us slaves, and then they could take whatever they wanted. They wouldn't have to trade with us at all. Well, all of these concepts are logical from the standpoint of the individuals involved. They are extrapolating what they would do if they were in a similar situation. We know that we don't do any of these things. We don't land our craft and rush up and say we want to enter into trade because we no longer use bones in our nose and coils of wire around our neck. We have other forms of adornment.

We don't enter into trade with them simply because they have nothing which we require. We know that they are helpless. We know that we could conquer them any time we chose. But if we did, they would turn out, I'm sure, to be much more bothered to us than they would be worth to us as slaves. And so we have no desire or no intent to conquer them. So they are perfectly safe from both of these contingencies. But, if such a flyer were flying over such a group of primitive people, and he observed that they were living in the bottom of

[18:31] Development of the interview themes

a canyon with steep walls and sort of a Shangri-La because this is the way Shangri-La was described, and being rather high in the air, he could look up this canyon for some 30 or 40 miles. He might see that if they headed this canyon, there was a very large lake impounded by a natural earthen dam, and that through an earthquake or some other cataclysm, this dam had been ruptured. The waters of the lake were pouring out into the canyon. He then would come into the position of being a prophet. He could predict what was going to happen to these people in a few hours, unless they knew what to do. This would mean that he would feel some human compulsion, or at least an impulse to land in a place where he could attempt to warn these people of their danger. Not because he wanted to enter into commerce or trade, not because he wanted to conquer them. Perhaps he didn't have any particular feelings toward them at all, but it is simply a normal human

reaction if we see people in danger to make some attempt to warn them. He would feel a need to land somewhere and attempt to warn his people. If he did, he would find himself in a difficult position. There's serious problems in the way. If he landed his troops in the midst of this tribe, they would be so frightened they would either rush away in all directions, leaving him no one with which he could talk, or if they were a little braver, they might feel that he was an attacker, and they would attack in return, and even with their primitive weapons, could probably succeed in killing him before he could make himself understood. His only hope would be to land at one side of this tribe, some distance from the main tribe, attempt to contact one or more individuals, attempt to make them understand the situation, with the hope that they in turn could relay the facts to their own people. If he did this successfully, then the buck would be passed

to the individuals who had received the information. They would find themselves in difficulties in conveying this to their own people, because nine out of ten of their own people would never consider for a moment that such a thing could have happened at all. They would dismiss it with little thought. There would be controversy pro and con, and while the controversy went on, the flood would probably arise. But there is a possibility that a few of the more intelligent people might say, well, after all, they aren't asking very much. Maybe there is a lake up there. Maybe it is coming down into the canyon. They aren't asking us to do very much, just climb the banks a little bit till we get high enough so we can be out of the flood. So, since it doesn't cost much, why not go along with the gag and do what's suggested? So it's probable that a few of the people at least would be safe. And perhaps the individual known now as the

contactee might be persuasive enough so that he might save quite a large proportion or perhaps all of the tribe. In any event, the pilot would feel the necessity to make the attempt. I think your analogy is very well drawn. I never heard it put so simply and so understandably before as you do there. You obviously have had this question thrown at you many times before. Well, we as a race here, we're not too highly developed. We war on our neighbors. We seem determined to destroy ourselves. But even we send missionaries out to less developed races in the attempt to assist them. We don't want to enter into trade. We don't want to conquer them. We're just trying to be of a little bit of assistance. Very frequently... Whether they want it or not. Yeah, very frequently our missionaries end up in the stew pot or we sent three into South America early last year. Two of them were very promptly killed. The third was wounded

but managed to escape, which is the only reason we knew what happened to the other. But we still send them. I mean, a thing like this is sort of discouraging to the race that sends out its missionaries, but we still continue to do it. So if we, as a very partially developed race, do this, it is almost certain that a more highly developed race would feel the same necessity if you do it. May we pause again just a second here, and then I'll get back and ask you another question. Then I'll let you go after a while, because with the schedule you've got I imagine you don't enjoy staying up all night. Dr. Fry, do you know of anyone personally who has been contacted by people from outer space, or have you ever met anyone yourself who claims to have come from an outer space? I know people can claim it, but anyone that you believe, I have had communication through a device which could best be described as an intercom located within a

sampling device, a material object, which I believe to have been built somewhere other than this Earth. I'm quite sure that at least nine out of ten of our listeners have heard this a number of times, because even on this program it has been the basis of some hours of discussion over and over again. And also it was the basis of a report called The White Sands Incident, which has gone into thirteen printings in the English language. It has been translated into nine foreign languages and printed in twelve foreign countries in nine languages. It should have been at least reasonably available to those who were interested in the subject. Once we get into it, however, the remainder of the time is always taken up with questions concerning this particular event, which I don't think was of any particular importance to the world as a whole. It was exceedingly important to me. But as an isolated incident, I don't think it was particularly important

to the world. There was a basis here only for answering certain general questions concerning this thing. There was a an opportunity to ask questions and get answers on the subject. Although I did not see any individual who purported to be from... No person walked in. This was a remotely controlled device controlled from some point which was stated to be a much larger craft at that moment some nine hundred miles above the surface. You went yourself to some point where you then communicated through this intercom with this other craft. Do you have believability in the people who told you that you were talking to a craft from outer space? Because it's only been playing a hoax on you? Well, it's possible. It isn't probable. I know there are people who will say, well, anything is more probable than the existence of extraterrestrials. So there is a terrific attempt made to explain everything in earthly terms. Well, I am always

willing to accept an earthly explanation if it turns out to be more logical than an extraterrestrial explanation. But unfortunately, there are quite a number of observations, there are quite a number of events which have occurred which are not susceptible to any logical earthly explanation. Usually attempts are made to give earthly explanations to those. And usually the earthly explanation turns out to be much more incredible and unbelievable than the observed data which it purports to explain. So that frequently the extraterrestrial explanation is the only explanation that does fit all of the observed data and explain all of the observed data. In this case, I would say it was much more logical to accept the extraterrestrial explanation than any earthly explanation that did not fit. Did you communicate with these people in English? In English language and in the American idiom. Except for one fact. It could have been the voice of

any technician, any engineer on the base. Idiomatic phrases were used. They were used frequently out of context. They were not used in the same way that we would use them. They always made complete sense. You could always know exactly what was being said, but in the midst of a rather precise scientific statement, a rather glaring slang word would appear upon occasion. It was as though the individual speaking was unable to distinguish between the words which we have accepted formally into our vocabulary and those which we have not yet accepted but continually used. They were used indiscriminately as though there were no difference. We would assume if these people have this great superior intelligence which they would have to have if they have these objects in space, they would have observed our planet. They would, for instance, know what goes on in Washington, D.C. or Moscow. They would know where the Kremlin is and where Washington is.

Do you suppose they have made any attempts to contact responsible government leaders in various countries? I think probably that there have been some such contacts. I don't know how far these have gone. Of course, it's always a question that comes up. It's always the take me to your leader idea that we have here. We feel that the leaders should always be the ones contacted, but if we return for a moment to our analogy, I don't think this pilot would be particularly concerned as to whether he contacted the then existing chief or the then existing medicine man or any of the others. He probably wouldn't have the time or the ability to do it anyhow. He would have to contact those who were most immediately available. And to him, there might not be any noticeable difference in intelligence level between the chief or the medicine man and any of the others. That is, the difference in knowledge and intelligence between the pilot

and these natives as a whole is so great that the relative difference between them themselves becomes insignificant. The pilot would neither have the time nor the opportunity to set up intelligence tests to determine which was the most intelligent or which was the most highly developed or who was the one best suited to receive this information. He would be interested only in finding someone with whom he could communicate. So I don't know how much attempt, if there has been any attempt made, I think there are a few things that lead me to believe that perhaps there has been some attempt and perhaps in one or two cases a successful attempt. This belief is predicated only on the actual actions of the involved individuals after the event. That there were certain acts performed by them which indicated that something had radically changed their mode of thinking very quickly. Do you think that our government or, I should say,

the major governments of the world view this as an intelligent, realistic, and serious thing or do they more or less UFOs or mirages from this imagination? I think that all governments view the possibility as a completely realistic thing. There wouldn't be as much money, time, effort and men expended on the search into these possibilities if it weren't considered as a completely possible thing. All statistics now make it not only possible but virtually certain that such races exist. Somewhere. Almost any astronomer today and any that I know of, any of the major astronomers, will say without hesitation that it's virtually certain that there are any number of races in this galaxy. But probably many of them have passed our state of development. But they will usually say or imply that of course these races are on some planet fifty or hundred or a thousand light years away from the Earth. They can accept with complete equanimity

a superior race as long as that race is at least fifty light years away. If evidence comes to their attention that such a race may be observing us from our own stratosphere then the situation changes completely. Then it becomes something from which we must escape at any cost. So there is a difference. I mean it can be tolerated the superior race can be tolerated as long as it's far enough away. Far enough away. Now what about the idea we've heard of these ships, these craft landing and taking someone aboard and taking them for a ride. Have you talked to anyone who has been on one of these ships? What has been their observation? I have talked I think to almost everyone in this country and in other countries either directly or by correspondence who have made any public statement to the fact that they have received such a contact. I think that in at least a certain percentage of case there is basic truth there. Being human beings

it is then necessary to evaluate the percentage of the report that derives from the original fact and the percentage of the report that derives from the individual himself. Anything that an individual gives out comes from this individual and some of that individual is going to rub off on what comes out. In other words human beings are not very adequate nor very precise reporters of things even that occur to them. Anyone who doubts this has only to go to a trial involving an automobile accident where there are eight or ten witnesses to this and listen to the stories of the different witnesses you will come to the conclusion unless you are experiencing this sort of thing you will come to the conclusion that that accident couldn't possibly have happened at all that all ten of these witnesses must be lying because they couldn't possibly give such totally different accounts of something that they had actually seen. And yet in most cases all of these witnesses

are perfectly honest. They are doing their level best to recite exactly what they saw, heard and experienced. But we just aren't good enough as reporters so it's difficult to tell how much actual validity factual validity is in the report and how much of the individual is in the report. But I think there are at least a number of cases in which there's little doubt that such a contact was established. Now one more question before I let you off the hook here. In your estimation if these people do exist in these UFOs what do they look like? Are they green men with horns? Are they purple with one huge eye? Are they nine feet tall as we have seen them depicted in our monster movies and our wars in the other world? Or do they look, could a man walk in here and look just like a normal man off the streets of Los Angeles? This is a question that came up some years ago. I was lecturing by coincidence in the same hall in which the present convention is being held

an anthropologist who was fairly well known in his field happened to be present at that lecture and he

[32:56] Closing discussion

came up and talked with me afterwards at quite some length. In fact we went across the street finally and to get some coffee and wound up having a steak and a few other things but he during of course his talk he said well I have no doubt whatever that there are any number of intelligent races in this galaxy but I can't conceive for a moment that any of them could possibly have any similarity to us and I said well why not? And he said well it's obvious that earth man is as he is because the earth is as it is. In other words earth man is simply the product of his environment and therefore if the environment were even slightly different then the product would be totally different. Well by this time we were walking across the street and as he was saying this it happened that a very tiny red ant crawled out of a crack in the street. I noticed this ant and I called this man's attention to the ant and I said does that ant look like me?

And he looked down. He smiled a little bit and he said well I don't notice any particular resemblance and I said you should. I said we're products of an identical environment I said we were both created right here and developed right here on this planet. I said if your thesis holds that life here is the product of the environment here then all life on this planet should be identical. Well this hit him almost like a slap in the face I mean he stood absolutely still on the pavement and he scratched his head and he thought and he looked at that ant and he scratched his head and he said well he says you know Mr. Price I just never thought of it that way he says I see what you mean there are tens of thousands in fact hundreds of thousands of various life forms on this planet only one of them proved to be the successful container of the degree of intelligence which we have there apparently is something about this particular form

that is successful that is capable of containing intelligence whether we attribute this to a deity to God or whether we attribute it to nature or whatever we attribute it apparently there is something about this form that is successful that has tried all others all conceivable forms and found only one which was successful so that the probability is that in any other planet which is sufficiently similar to this planet so that carbon life can develop at all and this has rather precise limitations if we say that all life must be limited to carbon life as we know it then we are applying rather small limitations on life but we find in this planet areas above the arctic circle where the temperature almost never goes above freezing we find very vigorous races of human beings up there they all have two eyes they all have one nose they all have two arms two legs they will vary a little in appearance from person to person they will vary a little in appearance from tribe to tribe

but they all have the same fundamental organs in the same number we can go down into the tropics where the temperature goes below 100 degrees and we find exactly the same pattern there they all have the same things in the same number so that apparently it is a form that is evolved to a point where it can successfully manifest this intelligence whether through a divine plan or whether through a plan of nature whichever choice you make you find that the same thing still exists that there is a probability at least that quite a great deal at least of life no matter where it develops if it develops on another planet with conditions similar to the earth here then the evolution will take the same course statistically and will end up with the same product so that even by his original thesis that man is a product of his environment any planet which had a sufficiently similar environment would go through a similar course of development and end up

with the same end product you destroy my illusion I was looking forward to meeting 10 feet tall purple women one day well they might be purple they might be 10 feet tall depending on the gravity of the particular planet and the particular lighting conditions now we have on this planet only 5 colors we laugh our heads off when we hear about little green men because it sounds very silly to think that a person can be green on this planet we have only white people we have black people we have red people we have brown people and we have yellow people and it seems perfectly ridiculous to think that anyone could be green even though almost all of our vegetation is green so I don't know about colors I think that the color would depend upon the particular circumstances on the planet you might find purple women on another planet little green men may laugh their heads off to think anyone could be born white this is pretty ridiculous

well Dan Fry I appreciate you very much taking your time out coming down tonight now you will be at this UFO convention tomorrow it goes on all day tomorrow at the embassy auditorium I believe and you're going to be there at 6.30 approximately that's when you're talking at 6.30 and that's the final meeting and it is open to the public isn't it we don't have to come with our spaceships we can all come I think that's great and I appreciate you coming down so very very much to talk to us where do you make your headquarters now you're a native Californian aren't you not exactly a native Californian I've been a resident of California since 1920 although in the last year I have been in Oregon more of the time than I've been in California I'm building a small city 7 miles northwest of Grants Pass in Oregon Merlin Oregon this is actually a tremendous experiment in sociology more than anything else we are building a complete community

small industries stores dwellings we're building this in a manner in which the niche occupied by each individual is specifically designed and intended engineered for that individual before he begins to occupy we have a list now of some 300 people 300 families who have indicated their intention to make that their home it's an ideal place by the way Oregon is becoming more and more into the fore all over the country is an ideal place people have journeyed for a thousand miles or more to vacation there for years and years but not very many of them have stopped to think that they wouldn't have to go a thousand miles of vacation there every year they could be there all the time if they wanted to but with the increase of population throughout the country it's obvious that it is going to increase here they have fertile soil they have beautiful areas everything necessary to a successful satisfactory community is already there but we have these names

we have the number of people we have the type of housing they require they come up usually one at a time and we have places for them to stay they look around the various lands that we've purchased they pick out a spot for their home and they go through our catalogs and they find the type of house they want built we find out what the occupation of the individual is and as soon as we can guarantee them that occupation well then we say well it's your turn our time is up tonight I'd love to do a separate interview with you on this sometime when you're back because I'd like to get into it with you this isn't a communal type of thing it's not a communal type every individual is encouraged to own his own home his own property his own business if possible and we are bending every effort to make it possible no matter what the financial condition of the individual to make it possible for him to own because we feel that this is necessary to the

dignity of the individual himself now it's just it's a plan it's a pattern community which if successful could be used as a pattern for any others we find that most cities today are like little Eva's topsy they aren't born at all they just grow and by the time some planning begins to be done usually they're too large for the planning to be much good except to ameliorate some of the evils that have already occurred this is simply when we begin the planning in advance before anyone is there at all and continue the planning as each individual arrives well next time you're in town give us a call I'd like to have you down to talk about this commercial aspect and all thank you very much Dan Fry for stopping by tonight it was a pleasure having you with us Ray you want to do something for us while we say goodbye yeah you're right I guess I am pretty young to be part owner of my own business been lucky I get yes well I worked hard at it too

my partner over there Chris taught me all I know great guy Chris is really put up with a lot for me when I was new around here just back from Korea for instance he used to worry because I smoked around the equipment told me I ought to try a chew of Copenhagen instead and I said