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1961 September 6th Inglewood Unit 15 Of Understanding Williamson On Little Chariots And Millenium Eugene Whitworth On Esp 2h12m P44

Understanding Audio Transcript

Recording structure

• [00:00] Opening remarks and introduction
• [05:00] Main address
• [49:55] Development of the main themes
• [01:34:35] Audience questions and discussion
• [01:55:37] Closing remarks

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[00:00] Opening remarks and introduction

Thank you. I want to speak to you very briefly because I know that you want your time with Mr. Williamson, but I would just like to say that symbology is a universal language. It is a language in which you can speak to any unknown person, and to their understanding, they would know exactly what you mean.

The good prince of the Venezians, the symbols that we do, we know that they are bringing us a definite message. But unless we know, we miss. We miss the prophecy and we miss the entire answer to us.

Interpretation. You have to know that nine is a symbol of completion. For nine takes us into another cycle. Main plane. Interpretation is on all three of us.

Interpretation is on all three of us. And it reads, Interpretation is on all three of us. And it reads,

Interpretation is on all three of us. And it reads,

Interpretation is on all three of us. And it reads,

Interpretation is on all three of us. And it reads,

[05:00] Main address

Interpretation is on all three of us. And it reads, Interpretation is on all three of us. And it reads, Interpretation is on all three of us. And it reads, Interpretation is on all three of us. And it reads, Interpretation is on all three of us. And it reads, Interpretation is on all three of us. And it reads, Interpretation is on all three of us. And it reads, Interpretation is on all three of us. And it reads, Interpretation is on all three of us. And it reads, Interpretation is on all three of us. And it reads, Interpretation is on all three of us. And it reads, Interpretation is on all three of us. And it reads, Interpretation is on all three of us. And it reads, whether we've been having the tornadoes and what happened. The old ways, and you know it's very difficult for people to give up

onto the old ways because we're used to it and it's convenient and comfortable.

It comes to a very critical place in its development that civilization perhaps itself is in danger because of recent developments within the last decade. And therefore man is looking outward away from Earth to something else. Then too there is a spiritual change coming to man where inside of man there is an awakening or a blossoming of something new which we call the Christ consciousness opening in each and every one of us. And of course there will be many other turns also. The study of ancient documents and records show that saucers have been here for thousands of years. From the first year to 1947, the government in its research discovered that they had been seen in the 1700s and the 1600s.

And like those of Leslie and England and so on show that saucers had been seen in India. Several centuries before that even. And we know from the study of the Egyptian sacred writings and Indian and Hindu legends that the saucers have indeed been here for a long time. The Egyptians called them fire circles. There's one particular example. During the reign of Thutmose III where the pharaoh was outside and the saucers were observed coming in low over the pyramid. Everyone got down as they were on horses and so on or in chariots and they got down and threw themselves on the ground. They were very excited. They said these fire circles came very low to the ground and made absolutely no sound. Examples of that in legend.

Interpreted of demons that are going about throughout the world.

Christians are the chosen path. Interpretations in that respect. However, I would say this.

If Jesus is the truth, I will make your forehead sore.

He doesn't. If he means it, why then we of course have nothing to be concerned about. The universe, as St. Elizabeth has said, negatives and positives exist. Or what we call good. And these negatives are to be found throughout the universe. Indeed, if it were not for a positive and negative, we wouldn't even be here now. Because that gives the negative condition to do something better. That's the thing that gives man the kick in the pants once in a while. That makes him go ahead and progress. Now there are certain states that are in contact. People from other worlds have made mistakes. You on earth are more fortunate than we in this respect. That we have developed a civilization where there isn't much opposition. Now there are certain things that appear to be perfection to us to have, which still is not perfection by any means. But we have developed a civilization in which there isn't much opposition. And therefore we don't have any opposition.

And God saw everything that he had made. And behold, it was very good. Good. Good. Good. Good.

Good. Good. Good. Good. Good.

Good.

Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good.

Good. Good. Good. Good. Good.

Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good.

Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good.

Good. Good.

Good. Good. Good.

Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. and not make the heart of his people fat and make their ears heavy and shut their eyes and hear

where there is then said our lord cities be wasted without inhabitants and the houses without man

but yet it shall be a tent and it shall return and shall be as a tail tree and as an oak who

substance to them when they cast their wreaths to the holy sea shall be the substance thereof first words of chapter one began their ministry they had an experience of seraphim wings or as in

the case of ezekiel which we'll get to in just a moment those will be eyes round about and change them these objects just exactly uh when it's going to take place this respect this particular

be just another name for faith but this particular definitely the planet between

mars and jupiter which is now an asteroid belt right itself is the most two years in

sight of jupiter and jupiter and jupiter and jupiter and jupiter and jupiter and jupiter and jupiter and jupiter and jupiter and jupiter and jupiter and jupiter and jupiter and jupiter debrid from this destroyed planet which was its debris when venus was a

just a few hundred years old as they said say that venus is not that young but there has been civilization on venus for thousands of years they say however instead of venus it would lose this destruction i don't want to get into that too much this evening but i do want that isaiah was

war he began his ministry that this was going to happen that this beer shower was coming to the earth

me and would destroy many villages and would destroy people. The researchers have said this, that they knew that this was going to happen, but they did not prevent it. They could not step in. It was not their duty to interfere with man's progression on this particular planet. They let the thing go ahead, finally did. They constructed two artificial satellites before it did happen to re-establish their magnetic field. Now, it's claimed that satellites of the planet are nothing but balances for the magnetic field. Some have no moon, but we have.

It is claimed that that particular planet of Lucifer did have a moon. Now, in ancient symbolism, we have legends of Lucifer and...

People speak of Lucifer as the planet Maljak, and they also speak of Malona, Maljak and Malona. In a female form, like Luna, we consider it in a female sense. That's why this particular planet of Lucifer did have one moon also. We use deuterium and tritium. I mean, we are using deuterium and tritium. But if we use actual hydrogen, which is other... Yes? They claim that is what took place on the asteroid belt of Lucifer.

Now, for some years, astronomers held a theory that this particular asteroid belt that had been a planet that somehow blew up. They don't know how it blew up. It might have been hit by a tree.

The studies with the more powerful telescopes that we have now that have come near the Earth, they have discovered that it was a thermal reaction and not a cold collision. Therefore, it could very easily have been of a nuclear nature. It became the asteroid belt. It was destroyed through a thermal action of some kind. Astronomers had no connection with the particular destruction of Lucifer.

They would not be responsible for that in any way. Of course, naturally, they weren't aware of it at all. They thought that it was a bright morning star in the heavens. It would be insane if we went out tomorrow and didn't see Venus and so on. Naturally, we'd say, how have you fallen from heaven?

Exactly when the meteor swarms will return. You just get in and read the book by day. You'll find that over and over again it's how this meteor swarm came in the villages. And the Jerusalem and so on were destroyed. And the people had a very bad time of it as these things rained down. The period of Isaiah, one time during the exodus, because an Egyptian record in sequence, which gives us a clue for that blow-up. First of all, in the old Egyptian record and also in the Bible, it is mentioned that the first thing that came to Earth was a very fine red dust. The earth was a red dust. The sea, by the way, got its name because of this red dust.

And then a coarse meteor.

It has a big one that's not a material then.

The sand and the crust, but I won't mention it here.

I think it's very interesting. When you get home, when you have time, read chapter 14 of Isaiah on Lucifer and see how it fits very well. It says, Rejoice not, thou, because the rod of him that spoke to you is broken, Lucifer, and it's been broken. Rejoice not, because that that is over. And his fruit came toward the earth, yet had that shape in the sky.

It was a terrific flaming mass. When it hit the earth's magnetic field, it broke up into smaller pieces. It's claimed that one of the smaller pieces landed in the area we know as Arizona, the large meteor crater there. It says it's not found.

It's from the air.

If you look at it from the air, you'll see this enormous snake swallowing the earth. This thing coming to the sky was a big, fiery, flaming serpent

that was going to devour the earth. In China, 700 B.C.

There was a reoccurrence of these catastrophes for many, many years. Now we don't have much of it anymore. Next. Because. That these things continued for several hundred years in cycles. Passed in the 30th year in the 4th month, in the 5th day of the month,

and I was among the captives by the river of Chebar that the heavens were opened.

Which was the 5th year of King Jehoiachin's captivity.

Born in Sarabania. Came out of the north. Out of the midst thereof is the color of amber. Out of the midst of the hearing reports.

Just think of these various reports as we read through this.

Of a man. Who was the soul of a cat's foot.

And they sparkled like the coloring. or Bernie Strang. Now, we would remember here, too, that a man at that time certainly would not know what a flying saucer was. About this last night, someone said, well, if during our time there's anything that goes through the sky, people say, well, it's an airplane or a balloon or something. Well, at that time, the nearest thing that they had to describe to it would be seraphim or chariot, and that sort of thing, which we're going to get. This is the wheels part of the lecture, and we're going to get to the chariot in just a moment. But he would explain it as the only way that he could because of his experiences. Naturally, he would not be appointed with any type of mechanical devices and so on. He disguised some of their information so that he would not be removed by suspecting officials and so on who wouldn't believe their story, even as men who are seeing saucers today many times do not believe

because they're crackpots and so on. So they disguised it and put it in the language of parables or symbology so that later man would perhaps be able to see the connection with later happening. Not when they went. They went. Everyone went. What everyone faces,

they forth. They had the face of a man, the face of a lion on the right side, and they forth had the face of an ox on the left side. They forth also had the face of an eagle. It's regarding to symbolism of the eagle, lion, bull, and man and with that. And they turned not when they went. Now evidently Ezekiel did not know the difference. He thought that the men were inside these born creatures.

And that the occupants of these things were the spirits of them. Because he said women were to go. They went. And they turned. Not when they went. As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like they went up and down among the living creatures. And the fire was bright. And they've been surveying and examining our sonnets.

They have been the ones who appeared as agents of course of the Creator.

What we might term a county net. After all, God's way never served to us. And there could be many, many manifestations to the men of God who wanted to bring us to some peace. Could certainly be part of the shrubbery at it.

Now to pick up a man's brainwaves. He put them in his pocket. And he took them off. He put them in his pocket. And he put them in his pocket. And he put them in his pocket. The woman continued. And the man went up. And he pulled them out of the ship. Or his co-pilot. Or whatever you want to call people in his colors. Lamp. Now you'll notice Ezekiel says, as for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire. Remember Halloween. They had metallic suits on, which reflected all the light. And like the appearance of lamps. It went up and down among the living creatures. And the fire was bright. And returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning. Now as I beheld the living creatures behold one wheel upon the earth by the waist of as the appearance of a flash of lightning now as i beheld the living creatures behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures and their appearance and their work was as it were

we just let it go and it would be too important we have a lot of trouble turning the lights out and so on for just two slides but to recall a photograph i showed last night the one from a dance piece book uh his particular title is and if you keep a picture of that in your mind with what would be crystal or either example then he says and the ring is translated right

you'll notice in here there will be a reference and it will give you a double another translation uh to the second ring that is used here translated straight s-p-r-a-k ship building

term which means that the the planting on a ship which extends from stem to stern is complete it

isn't broken up it's just one big continuous plant that refers to that upper portion

band it's not broken it's just a continuous band and is similar to the old straights so it says here rings were full of ours bring them wheels arrangements the counter rotating wheels going

on the lower part of the ship and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth the wheels the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creatures was as the color of the

terrible christ type software some of them that is above upon the heads of the living creatures

the software was as the color of the terrible christ right flashing white on top of the ship now reason sightings and

heads above understanding incorporate i would like to introduce dr eugene woodworth who will

tell us about his recent expedition in central america and particular emphasis on extrasensory perception research conducted there dr woodward thank you mr president ladies and gentlemen

when my wife and i left san francisco to make an after-dinner speech we didn't think we'd be making a before breakfast speech and we think you're wonderful to wait for us frankly i have a real mad on at united airlines shouldn't say any more but for some reason they had mechanical

difficulties and i had ulcer difficulties when i discovered i was going to be as late as i have been

because we're late i want to sort of give you in a capsule form what to me has been some of

the most significant and also some of the most significant and also some of the most significant important safari information that we have been able to uncover now as you know great western

university was founded by a group of businessmen in the san francisco area no person who works for

great western university gets any money for it whatsoever in any way we believe that if you're going to serve mankind you're going to serve him all of the way and if you really want to serve him you'll serve him on your own payroll not on his and for this reason we offer courses from physics to metaphysics at the very lowest possible cost

now because i'm sometimes the more vocal individual the 22 fine businessmen and two

business women of the city of san francisco who helped in the founding of great western university have given me the title founder it's no more true than it's true that i alone am hoping to conquer space for it was a team effort of people dedicated

and they sort of pushed me into a situation where i couldn't do anything but go along and as soon as i got vocal they made me number one man we have been on the toughest safari i have

ever been on and this is my 11th the 7th that i have led we go on these safaris into

the deepest part of the jungles in mexico and also out in the yucatan

and any other place where we think significant information concerning man's past may be found

and interpreted and made significant to man's future now we'll give you some of the ideas of

what we're trying to find out is the future of man's future is the future of man's future is the future of man's future and what belief it is as well is there an eden coming this was a constitution in the Jug equate it's the future we're trying to do that the forward if there is that way if the boon that way yes yeah may be allok now before this a here here here here locot That lake somewhere to the north from which their ancestors came, that lake in which many fish abounded and around which there was ample game and a plain verdant and fertile for the growing of good things. That place where cotton grew already in color in the bowl. That place where food came easy and man had no effort for living and could devote his time to the speculation of the importance of God. Was there such a place on the American continent? This is one of the things we try to find out and tonight I'm going to bring you a little story about our last expedition into that area.

Another question that comes behind us all of the time and it's like the piece of poetry that I remember. Behind my ears I always hear time's winged chariot hurrying near. And it seems to me sometimes that there isn't enough time to do the things that we should do. And one of the questions that keeps popping up and that we keep trying to find an answer to is this. What is the meaning of the symbol and the myth of the action of the Atlantean figure? Now my scientific friends in the room are going to immediately start folding their arms and getting their heads down and saying, good Lord, he's not going off into metaphysics already, is he? And let me tell you something. I'm going into metaphysics right now because I'm going to do something. I'm going to try to convince you, believing that you're pretty hard-headed and scientific, that there is something in this metaphysics that's been recorded in history, in stone. And what it is,

I'm not going to give you the answers to. But I'll tell you one thing. We can reason about it together. And if you don't like my conclusions, then I invite you afterwards to come up and throw a half Nelson on me and whisper in my unwilling ear your own conclusion and make me listen. Hmm? Fair? Now another thing too. Let me warn you right now. I'm going to, I'm going to assault every one of, every intelligence you have. And I'm going to try to win you by persuasion and bombast and knowledge and just downright persuasive skill, if I have any, to believe the way I believe. Because I'm a hard-headed scientist, come across the line and saying to myself, there are things I can't find out in textbooks. I've read so many textbooks, I'm sick of them. And I haven't the answer to what is the purpose of life. Where are we going in this world? What is God? I can't find the answers in textbooks. And so I turn to life itself looking for an answer.

And I don't want you to turn around now, but one of the great, many men who has many an answer has come into the back of the room and that's Dan Fry. Hi, Dan. We're just getting started. You never had a plane so late in your life. I want you to know that being scientifically trained, it bothers me a good deal to get off into the metaphysical side. I've told Dan before, I've never seen a flying saucer. And some of my friends say, and we hope he never sees one, because if he does, he'll convince us that we see him too. And if I ever see one, I'll say so. But I'll tell you one thing. Some people like Dan Fry, Rick Williamson, and others of the same ilk have never been wrong in what they've told me in their life on anything I could check. And they tell me they've had these experiences. And you know, I go just one logical step beyond logic to try to understand them. The trust of my fellow man. And if I can't prove them wrong

in the areas where I have knowledge, then why should I doubt them in the areas where I have no proof? I've never seen a flying saucer, an unexplained flying object, except once or twice when I wasn't looking and a beer bottle hit me. But there are people who have. Now we in the university have set up expeditions to explain something, something that's as strange in the history of mythology as is the flying saucer in the present world. And as I say, the Atlantean figure, the little person, the 18-inch person, or peoples, or call it what you will, and we traced that out while we were down in the Yucatan this time. And if you have patience enough and can endure it, I'm going to bring you the story of that. And then there's one other thing I'd like to bring to you tonight, one of the sweetest and roughest experiences in my whole life. Again, we went into the Lacandon Jungle. Now if you don't know where that is, it's just across the alligator-filled lake

over the quick 600 yards into Washington, to one of the most deadly jungles on the face of the earth according to some people who are supposed to know. And we went there. Why? Because I can't find it in textbooks. I've read religions, well, almost all of the ancient religions that I could find out anything about. And I read certain tentative conclusions. But I'm not satisfied with those conclusions because they've come off of paper. And I'm scientific enough to at least be always analyzing myself with regard to my reaction to some of these emotional religious things. And so I hunt for a place available to us where we can go and see an ancient religion actually in process. So why do we go on these hazardous trips into the Lacandon Jungle? Well, I think it's because my beautiful wife probably has the greatest sense of adventure of any person under the sun. And then it may be because she is just a little bit that-a-way and hasn't quite enough

sense to not go into these hazardous places just because I want to go. So we start out as two and we end up sometimes with seven or eight, seven people as we did this time, curious to go with us to see what makes us tick and they get imbued with the same spirit. What are we going to do in the future? Before I get into the real talk tonight, let me tell you. This last tour that we took down there, we were asked by a radio broadcasting station if we would give them a daily tape. And we thought that would be fun. But we mentioned to some of our friends that we didn't have a tape recorder of adequate broadcast quality that we could carry. Ounces count, you know, when you're in backpack conditions. About two weeks later, a friend of mine called up and said, Gene, when are you leaving? And I said, we're leaving on March 24th. Oh, good, he said. It'll be here by that time. And I said, what are you talking about? He said, well, I found one of those recorders,

you know, the good ones. And I said, well, what good ones? Because I'd been looking at a Mohawk. As you know, base recorder costs $550. If you're going to get a good microphone, you add another approximately $100, I think, list price of around $93. You get a few additional attachments that you almost have to have. You get a few of those cartridges that are around $1,450 a piece. And the first thing you know, $1,000 looks like somebody had pounded it with a sledgehammer. And he said, well, he said, I found one of those Mohawk things. He said, you want? And I bought it. And I said, you mean you're going to lend it to me? He said, lend it to you? Hell, man, I'm going to give it to you. And we kind of liked that. We had wanted for a long time to be able to do certain types of photography because you see down in that jungle area, we're recording things that in another 10 years, no human being on the face of the earth can record because it will have disappeared.

These secret ancient Mayan rituals, nobody has so far

[49:55] Development of the main themes

particularly wanted to record them, but I have because they're explaining to me something out of ancient religions that I couldn't explain to myself. I wanted to get special close-up shots varying from very wide to very close. Now, if you fellas know about photography, you know that that new zoom lens, very fast, base price, $450. You know, and then by the time you get a carrying case on top of that, another $105, you know, and the first thing you know, Gene Whitworth is so broke that he doesn't even start in with this kind of stuff and what happens? Why, somebody said, you want that? Well, why didn't you say so? We'll get it for you. By the way, go up and talk to so-and-so and so at such-and-such a place and tell him, I said, pick up the lens. So I went up there, the last lens was there, I said, he said, pick up the lens and he said, oh, he did? Well, here's the lens. Now, what about a carrying case? Okay, here's a carrying. We went this time

equipped with a camera really for bear thanks to the generosity of wonderful people who are beginning to say, well, maybe those people who take nothing for themselves are on the track of something important and I can best serve mankind by helping them serve mankind better and I'll tell you, when we get down there in that area and we run these extrasensory perception things that we run, I always sense they send a special prayer for their making it possible to record as we did this time some ancient chants that have never been heard and ancient chants of such significance that perhaps 50 years from now those tapes cut on that machine given out of the generosity of a man's heart may become significant when understanding and understanding the importance of the sacredness of the sacredness of nature and the sacredness of the human being. The sacredness of nature has made itself felt in every heart and every mind and every home and every hamlet

and every place and people turn looking into the ancient religions for that secret something that they don't quite get. Oh, so much for preface knowledge to get into what we did. First of all, the little Atlantean figures and their significance. Well, you know, the little Atlanteans, you know, the little Atlanteans, you know, the little Atlanteans, you know, we have heard this story of the Alush, the Janakas, the La'a, the Mo'o, all of the different tribes call them by a different name, and they're all talking about something of the same thing. Now, one will have this kind of a characteristic for his little people, little 18-inch person of people. They are, spend their time falling in love with pretty girls. I don't think there's anything bad about that. But they go one step further, fellows. They kidnap them. And they hide them away in caves. And this isn't quite accepted by most of the tribes. Personally, it might be a very good approach, but I don't think

we'll get away with it either. Nevertheless, these little people are always a little bad in most of the tribes. There's another one. This poor fellow doesn't know whether he's coming or going. As my grandma used to say to me, you don't know whether you're coming or going, child. And this fellow doesn't because, you see, he has his feet on backwards. What can the poor guy do? I mean, when he starts to you, he's going away from you. This type of thing. And so, these are the stories, but they're the myths. And we started finding these myths about four safaris ago. And one of the things that caught our attention to this myth was that little statue. How many of you have been to the to Chichen Itza? How many have been there to the Temple of the Warriors? Well, this is a tremendous place, one of the ancient and wonderful places, a temple center that was late, actually, founded probably, there's argument, about 350 A.D., maybe a little later. I believe that the structure

must have been organized. The religious structure that built this area must have been organized at least 2,000 years B.C. In this place is a little standard bearer. You know, the little fellow that stands there like this with a hole in his hands and they say, well, they put the standard in there. But he's a little figure about this high and of a strange face, unusual. We saw this and our minds immediately clicked to the myth of the little people. Why was this little person on that banister? Well, not so much would have happened if that had been all, but it wasn't. Where next? But to Ushmael. Now, this is a very late, a very late temple complex with also the governor's palace. But the odd thing about it is this, that on the, in, on the wall, the frieze of the wall high up on the quadrangle of the nunnery, in Ushmael, there is another representation, two that are very significant to anyone who's looking at myths and hunting for symbols. First of all,

the only place that we know of in all of the area where a true representation of a true rattlesnake is found is this tremendous rattlesnake combination that goes all the way across almost 50 yards of this temple frieze anyway, and twines around, comes back over again, the rattles over the frieze, and out of the head, the head raised like this and opened, and out of the center of the mouth, there comes the head of one of the little people, a perfectly formed man-like head. Now, these two rattlesnakes entwined form the frieze, and in the center, they each have the head coming out of the mouth. Now, near the center is supposedly the individuals who create Ushma. Now, we know that the shoes created it, actually built it, at least we think we do, but let me show you what myth does. On this frieze also is this funny-looking head, and a very tight torso, and then a big skirt-like thing. It's supposed to be the mother of the little dwarf.

This is the sorceress. Now, watch what develops here, because it becomes important to everything else we'll be talking about. Underneath her, subservient to her, right underneath her feet, as the structure is, like this, is first of all the round disk of the sun, white, with definitely the sun's rays cut in it. And please, if you've been there and seen it, and the guide said, look, it's the feathers, you know, the feathers from the feathered serpent. Quit believing it. It has nothing to do with feathers, believe me. But it has the funniest little face, the little teeth, upper teeth showing, and this strange, odd configuration in which his face is made from triangles. Now, watch this develop. A little creature, just, oh, probably 18 inches high, with a body like the sun. But with striations in it, and when you know that they always use striations when they mean to show that something is of a spiritual form, or something is hidden,

then you see that this is the spirit sun, not the actual sun that is the body of this little dwarf on the trees of the nunry at Ushma. And the little head made out of triangles. What does this mean? Why, to most people it just means that probably they're bad artists. But to those interested in the symbols, you get a great deal of mystical meaning. The triune person. The different levels of initiation and intelligence. All of these worked out to form a face. And here's the myth behind this little, this little dwarf. His mother, he is the king of the Alush, or the little people. His mother, the sorceress, hypnotized him. And he hypnotized his people by a sort of an electrical induction, I guess you'd say. And on the three dark nights of the moon, they built all of the temple complexes in all of the area of Yucatan. This is the story we picked up a long time ago. Does it make sense to you? Well, it didn't to us at that time.

So this time, on this trip, we went back to try to find out what's the background to this kind of a strange story. And instead of going directly to Ushma this time, we started in another direction. We thought, and we believe that there is some possibility in this, if Wadi Qumra can turn up with the Essene scrolls, then surely all of those magnificent cave complexes in the Yucatan can turn up with some of the ancient information which was thought to be burned when the conquistadors ordered that all Mayan codices be burned on the square at Mani, about 150 years ago. 150 miles from the present city of Merida. Probably not, 110. Thirty-one days they attempted to eradicate from the face of the earth for all times all of the information concerning this wondrous ancient religion. We thought, because the Mayans are a strong people and have a capacity to remember and to hate and to fight, and have many times showed that death was

to be preferred to certain kinds of slavery, we thought that they might have hidden up to a future time some of those codices. And we knew if we could find the place we might bring them to light. Now we started our adventure talking to Santiago Pacheco Cruz, a person probably you've never heard of. But I'm going to speculate about this man. He's 83 years old. He's written a book for each one of the years of his life. And I mean a book. 365 pages. And more. Eighty-one books published and two manuscripts ready to go. A prodigious scholar, once the head of federal education, the secretary of federal education in all of the territory of Quintana Roo. A scientist, a man of skill and learning. And we started talking to him about the possibility of getting to a then mythical cave called Lolton. He is a Mayan, or at least 80% Mayan. He is probably the most outstanding with possible one exception of all the Mayan scholars. And so when we started talking to him

about the possibility of the Mayans having hoarded up to a future time some of these libros, books, codices, at the first part he couldn't even hear us talking. He couldn't even hear us. When we said Lolton, he didn't even connect it as being a cave. I have never in my whole life been so thoroughly screened with mental force as I was in the two and a three quarter hours that we spent in the presence of that magnificent grand old gentleman. But he was taking no chances. There were three of us that went in there, a man from out in Tucson, Arizona, Bill Knight from the city of San Francisco, and myself. And we all said the same thing when we came out. It was like we were caught up in a vortex of force and power. It was as if they could x-ray right through our hearts. Ladies and gentlemen, I am saying something to you now in public and open. Maybe I wish I hadn't. This is what I believe. And I believe it strongly from this experiment.

That there are and there have been and there is today groups of Mayans who still practice their ancient sacred religions and who are so far advanced that they can almost completely read your thoughts. Okay, scientists, take me apart. I'm saying I think it. And if I were to talk to my metaphysical friends, I'd cut out that indefinite stuff and say I know it. For I was there. The subjective experience cannot be denied. If it could, we wouldn't have psychology, would we? You feel them. And they shake you apart. And they determine even what your motives are. And when they found out that our motives weren't to grab some libros and get out, but we were after information of service to mankind, and they became convinced of this, then we began to have a strange combination of initiations. Suddenly, this mythical cave of Lolton, Oh, Señor, Loltoon! Loltoon, oh, si, si. Well, he knew exactly where Loltoon was, but not Loltoon. All of this while,

backing us off and off and off. And you know what finally broke him down? I was surprised. He was sitting there practicing all of this mental force that we practice, you know, when we're trying to send thought-force messages and record them, like is reported in the book that Dan's publishing, Diary into the Unknown. Using all of the techniques that you find in that book back there, the orange book on the table, called The Technique of Effective Prayer, using every one on him, and all of a sudden, he looked at me and grinned. Just like two kids, you know? One side of an ice cream and he's holding it up, the other goes over and licks it. He knew what was happening. And he finally turned to me and said, Hermano. And I said, Hermano. For he said, you are my brother. And I said, yes, we are brothers. And we understood each other. Not because he's a great scientist, not because I'm a would-be scientist, but because two men forgot about science

and went into their hearts and brought out all of the metaphysical skills they had. And we were sitting there radiating these mental forces at each other until we came head on, he accepted it, and I accepted it, and the key to all of the Yucatan was given to us in that moment. We had spent three days, three days, mind you, trying to get some significant connection with the Elush, with Lolton, as we were calling it, and by the next day, open sesame. We made one single trip, and we got more information about the myth of the Elush in that single trip than we'd been able to get in all of our lifetimes before. Now, we also were told how to get to the so-called mythical caves at Lolton. Now, we'd been in other caves, we'd been in Balancanchay, the cave that had just been recently found out there, a tremendous place, with rooms three times as big as this, not found by a scientist or someone who knew what he was doing, but found by an ordinary guide

who was curious and wouldn't believe that the scientists had all the answers. And so he said, to heck with what the scientists are saying, I'm going to look in that pile out there because I believe that this is where the people were from what I've been able to discover by talking, and he went and pulled the rocks away by hand. And Homer Gomez should go down in history as being the man who began to uncover some of the significant past of the ancient Mayans because he found there things that they won't even let you photograph at the present time. But we were in Balancanchay, we were also at Boloncin, tremendous cave back there, but now at last we were getting a chance to get to a great cave, probably one of the three most important training centers of the Mayan priests on the face of the earth. Probably you could say that from a secret training standpoint, unquestionably the most important. And how important is this to us here?

Let's take a look and see. We went to Moana and then took a little road off and finally we ended up at Oshkosh Kab and if you think I've lost my teeth I really haven't. It's Oshkosh Kab and it means the sweet tobacco tree or the honey tobacco tree depends on how you wish to say it. And there we expected to be able to get horses and go from there to Lolthun and we thought everyone would know. But in the village we asked about Lolthun and no one knew. No one knew. Until finally, the direct descendant of one of the ancient Mayan the last of the ancient Mayan kings came up as if he'd had the message and he asked us what we were interested in and I told him immediately we wanted to go to Lolthun. And he could not take us for there was only one man in this whole village who either was permitted or had the knowledge to take us to Lolthun. Could we get horses? They looked at the packs we wanted to take in and they held a little conference

and then everything went completely ignorant. You couldn't get horses around there. Why, this was the day when all the horses had been let out to pasture. Could we round them up? Why, no. No, they wouldn't round up their horses. Who would go and round up a horse after it had been let out to pasture? I know that you go and get horses any darn time you need them. And I tried to convince them of this but they looked me straight in my baby blues and they said, why no sir, no horses. And they looked at all of this luggage and no horses, no donkeys. Could I get bearers to take us out there with all of this luggage that I wanted to take to make a long study in Lolthun? Why, no sir, only two people in the whole village would go. Miguel, shoot. The descendant of a king and Eugenio Tuz who if I've ever seen a Mayan priest was a Mayan priest of the highest caliber. The only man who could take us. Well, since they'd stripped us down

literally to our flashlight and as I said walking out there a little bit more and we'd just had our skivvies on, wouldn't we? We were able to take our canteens but believe me, we were stripped. We hadn't taken anything else. The fact that it was 110 degrees and about 97% humidity may give you some indication of the difficulties that we were under at that particular time. But I was going to do anything to see Lolthun. So we established a base camp in Ushkushkab and we started the simple little trek of about five and a half miles out to Lolthun, exploration of the cave and then back all in one day. I didn't set the pace. My wife set the pace. I never set a pace that intense but we set a pace of about three and a quarter miles per hour. Now mind you, two and a half is plenty for me but we kept that pace out there. We had to cut trail with machetes, bang, cutting everything out of the way and finally we got to Lolthun. This room is merely

a sort of a thimble in the antechamber. Ladies and gentlemen, I can't tell you what I saw there because if I did, you wouldn't believe me and you'd be right not to. But I can hint to you some of the things I saw. I saw entrances bigger around actually than this room, 110 or 115 feet up to where the sun would come in and trees growing up out of there where the earth had just dropped down like that, all of a sudden, bigger than this area, dropped down like holes around underneath. There were about 14 or 15 of such entrances as part of the beginning of the cave at Lolthun. And then we got a little bit beyond the lip of the mouth. We were probably three miles in that cave. We stayed in there until our flashlights began to go dim and then we thought we'd better get out. Every time we'd begin to lose another flashlight, we'd stop and take a vote and they'd vote go on go on and we kept going on. And what did we find? Quickly, let me give it to you.

We found little rooms like this, little rooms and off would be a door. Not over 25, 30 inches high. You'd go through one of those little things. It'd be just a hole in the rocks as a door. You'd go through one of those for maybe four or five feet crawling and stand up into a really big room, so big that your flashlight beam would be lost in the distance. And when you looked close, you saw on the walls around you these strange mythical carvings. Like no carvings and no mythical symbols that I have seen anywhere else. Peculiar initiatory symbols in peculiar and strange recesses. We named some of these little chambers there'd always be a kind of a form like a giraffe. We called one of them the elephant chamber and we called one of them the wolf chamber. And there was one place we called the sacrificial area because the sun was coming down on this beautiful big rock. Now we had gone in there hoping we'd find libros. What did we find?

We found that only two months before we got there, some people had been there, returned a second time. They'd been there two years before, seven in strength. They stayed, I think they said nine weeks. They had come out, not at the mouth where they went in, but some seven and a half miles away in the mouth of another cave complex. So if I say to you that though we spent the better part of a day and long enough to lose flashlight power in there, we saw chambers and symbols such as I've never seen in my life, but such as I expect to see again for I'm returning there for a period of study, then you'll understand what I mean. Possibly one of the most important initiation chambers on the American continent. And the libros, what about them? Why we found an excavation or a trench that had been dug in the sand underneath where one of these had fallen and crumbled in sand. This was dug about twice as wide as one of those tables back there, and just

about as long as one of those tables across the room, and about ten feet deep. And we asked Eugenio Tuz what did they find? And he said, libros. And we said, uh, now look, we're looking for libros. What did they take out of the trench? And he said, libros. We didn't believe it and we followed him around and finally he convinced us because he said, showing us the way the codices were put together, they took out libros. And now ladies and gentlemen, this is a public announcement of the fact that we're turning into Gestapo. Whoever those people were, wherever they are, by some means, and I hope it's not a crook, but maybe by a hook, we're going to dislocate them. For we want the knowledge that's in those codices. And I don't think Eugenio Tuz would for a single second tell us anything except the truth concerning his ancient Mayan books. They don't know who they were. They only know that they said they were from a certain state in the Union.

They were there two years ago. They came back again, dismissed the guide, except that he didn't dismiss very easy. They were there for a short period of time, about a day and a half, and they came out with loaded donkeys. You see why they weren't taking any chance of taking any donkeys, mules, or anything else out there with us. So much for the story, because it leads into the other phase that I wanted to tell you about. And that's the Elush. The little people. We traced this myth down. We traced it into caves, and we traced it all over everywhere we could. It's a living myth. It isn't dead. And you know one of the great scientific mysteries that's never been explained by all of those big brains that write those big thick tomes and get them published by universities, and never been able to explain the Atlantean figure? We traced it down. We found the answer. Not in the pages of a book, but on the tongue of a living man who loves

the whole story. And here is the story. Apparently the Elush actually lived. Apparently at one time it was peopled in the area by small people. 20 inches high. Apparently there is a remnant of those people at the present time, according to the stories that come to us. And apparently that remnant of the people is so highly developed that they can come to and serve the man who is in the right frame of mind. Now what is the right frame of mind? Well it seems that a man who has been quite thoroughly borracho, but is coming out of it nice and easy and fully relaxed, is just as liable to be shaken awake by the little people and beckon to come for instruction, as is the man who has spent all of his lifetime being good. So apparently it's the condition of mind, the peaceful, relaxed, wonderful, receptive, almost innervated condition that's important as much as it is the force of mind. Never in all of the story do you find that the Elush,

the little people of light, the ones who would have the body of the sun power behind the sun, it seems these little people never harm anyone. They scare the wits out of them because they try to get them to do something, but people don't do it, and so they are thoroughly scared. What about the living story? Why the story is that the Elush actually created every one of those temple complexes, and more than that, the story is that they are still alive and they center around Sierra de Paloma. The hill of the doves. And we found out where the hill of the doves is, and we're going back to the hill of the doves. The fact that it happens to be in the edge of Quintana Roo, right in the Jaguar country, and the fact that it's down there where it's real rough going, has nothing to do with the case we're going to find the hill of the doves. Now our informant, one of them at least, was a man who was a master. I had a master's degree from the university

down there. Not an ignoramus. A really smart man, I'd say. And he said, when I asked him the final question, I said the $64 question, what do you think about the Elush? Do they actually exist? And I recorded this on tape, and it was broadcast in our area. It's my understanding that it's being picked up by a national broadcast, and maybe if it comes down here, you'll hear it. And his statement was approximately this. I may not quote him exactly, but it's as close as I can remember. I believe that the Elush did exist. I have money

and time enough, and I'm working hard to get enough money so that I can quit my job and go find them. I am going to find the Elush. For they are important to my people. What about the Elush themselves? Why, the Elush are found wherever man is in the right frame of mind to receive the right kind of instruction. And the little Atlantean figures at Chichen Itza, which have never been explained through science, are nothing in the world but the stone symbols made by the Elush when they were about to be taken from the earth in the ancient times. And into those stone symbols they impregnated their own spirits. And how do we think about them? Why, we Mayans, when we get a chance and there's no tourist looking on, believe that what we need to do is to free the Elush from those stone symbols in which they placed themselves. And so we try to drive them out. And if you will secretly watch it when your Mayan guide goes by, or one of the workers around the

temple goes by, you will see that he'll take a little stick or a blade of grass, or even with his thumb and his finger, he'll go up and he'll thump the little stone on the head. And what he's doing is saying, Spirit get out! Spirit get out! To get out of the dead stone and become the living spirit again. To them, the Atlantean figure is nothing in the world but the petrification of the spirit, so sweet and beautiful that it can teach mankind things mankind needs to know. Is there an Eden in the Americas? Remember the story of the basic Cuehuetolan? And now we'll leave the Yucatan and we're going way back up north, north of Mexico City. And this is a fantastic story I ask you for indulgence. We first heard of a strange unusual pyramid called the split pyramid about seven years ago. But it hadn't been discovered then. It was only discovered about three and a half years ago. But somehow we got this story of the split pyramid. And we,

when we heard of the split pyramid, decided we'd go to it. And we went, just out of curiosity. And there upon the high plain in the, well, very rugged mountains west of San Miguel de Allende, about 8,500 feet, roughly a mile and a half above sea level, there is this strange little pyramid whose significance has totally and completely escaped us until now. Now I don't know that we're going to create a scientific interest in this odd ball little thing out there on the windswept heights of a fantastically difficult mountain. But let me tell you about it. And then you see if you think it's worth scientific review. Standing there in the center of a vast sloping plain, a little temple that comes up like this and then suddenly splits right down the middle. On this side a spire and this side a spire. And I always am careful about exaggerating. And so when I had Bill Knight there, he's an artist, a man who knows dimension and distance. We said,

Bill, how high is it? Do you think it's 65 feet? He looked with his practice eye and he said, you better add 25. And I said, well, what do you think it probably was before there was a break or something happened to it? And he looked again and he said, well, if all that debris were piled up on top of it, it probably would be 125 feet. I said, Bill, now you know a good deal about the history, some of these archaeological things. How old do you think it is? And he turned and looked at me and he said, I think with you I believe it's older, than Tula. And I said, and how old do you think Tula is? And he said, I think it's at least 3,000 years older than Teotihuacan. Now to give you what this means, the Tultecas are said to have built the huge Teotihuacan with the Pyramid of the Sun, one of the large, one of the five or six largest structures man-made in the world. When you go to this fantastic pyramid, there is so much metaphysical learning to be had

within the compounds of that one area that you could spend a lifetime there and probably learn more than you would from books. But the idea is that Tula is older than Teotihuacan. That the mounds at Tula are 3,000 years older than the mounds at Teotihuacan. And what do the Tula mounds look like? Why, instead of being dirt with stone over the surface, they are dirt without stone, and they're so carefully made, so carefully put together, that even a water pipe, a clay water pipe, which is put in there, still was extant and could be reinstalled again after all of those centuries of being buried completely from the view of man. Now I said, Bill, let's be careful, because I'm going to bring up to you something that is either right or it's so wrong that it would be criminal to say anything about it in public. And he said, alright. What? I said, now look, and don't let me influence you because I want your independent judgment. Where is this pyramid

setting? And he said, well, for Pete's sake, it's setting in the middle of what might once have been a beautiful big plain, verdant and fertile. And I said, well, that's nice, Bill. What would you think of the mountains you see around here? Why, he said, in a time when there was adequate rainfall, it might have been one of the most wonderful game refuges the world could have at this altitude and with the tropical sun and with the right moisture, it might have been a simple paradise. And I said, Bill, don't let me influence you, but look around on the base of those mountains. Do you see anything there? And he looked around very carefully and he said, I see something there. And I said, now I'm going to tell you what I see and you tell me if it's what you see. And this big 225 pound man followed me as I pointed away to the mountains six or seven miles across. And I said, if you follow the baseline of this pyramid over to that mountain over there,

you see where the earthquake must have shaken out, a complete ravine. But you see also where it hasn't shaken the ravine out, it looks as if it once had been and he said, the line of the high water mark of a lake. I said, Bill, you're saying things I don't want to hear unless you see them because this is what I imagine I can see. And he said, well, either you're hypnotizing me or I'm hypnotizing you because that's exactly what I see. And I said, now look, Bill, now look, let's not get excited about this, but for Pete's sake, how big would this lake be? Boy, how big from the base of this pyramid here to the end of that lake as you see it there and standing on top of that pyramid, that fantastic place, windswept. He looked a long while and he said that lake would have been 35 miles wide and 70 miles long. And I said, Bill, don't repeat it unless it's absolutely true. And he said, not only that, you can see where the earthquake

went through there, dropped that far end off. And he said, this could have been one of the most verdant places in the world until an earthquake destroyed it. And I said, could it have been an Eden? And he looked at me and smiled and said, it certainly would have been a paradise. And every tribe in all of southern Mexico says our ancestors came from a place to the north high in the mountains on the edge of a lake filled with reeds and abundant with fish located in a plain verdant and fertile and surrounded by ample game to serve man for all of his days. We'll take another trip and this time right into the heart of the Lacandon Jungle from Merida where we were waiting for the Elush. We took a train to Tennessee Cay. And I want to tell you a peculiar story. Talk about thought-force prayer. In the book on technique of effective prayer back there I make the point that when you're praying be sure you leave God some leeway. And I want to show you what

happened when I left God some leeway in my prayers. We're getting close to the end of our time by now. We have all kinds of delays that have bothered us. Delays in getting a hold of our time, getting where we wanted to go and then all of a sudden we're on the train and we're headed for Tennessee Cay. Or Tennesseek as they say down there. I wanted to get from Tennessee to El Real over in the edge of the jungle and then from El Real into Lake Neha across the lake, across the quicksand and in there all in three days. I put it all in the old tank, you know, thinking it out, making it work. When we got to Tennessee Cay and for some reason there was an overcast and the pilots wouldn't fly us over to El Real. So we lost a day. Now count these up if you will. The next morning it was perfectly beautiful sunshine and so still with the stuff in the old think tank, you know, we're going to make it, we're going to make it, you know, rushing.

But look God, you just be sure we make it. I mean, I'll do the worry and you just do the taking care. And we got to El Real. We got to El Real and what happened? Why the mail sometimes gets in there and sometimes doesn't and the man on whom I stake my life as well as on prayer, Vicente Doria, he hadn't shown up. So what do we do? We send a man on a horse riding in the night and he rides out the next morning. He meets Doria on the trail, almost halfway there. And he said, why would you, why were you coming? And he said, well, I just got this feeling last night. This was about the time we had landed and discovered he wasn't there. And I thought I better start because I knew that Whitworth and his party was there and I know him. He's the impatient type.

[01:34:35] Audience questions and discussion

So he had already started across the jungle trail to meet us. He got there in the afternoon. But mind you, this is two days gone. And I'm saying, let's get in there, let's get in there, let's get in there, you know. When we would have been on the trail to Lake Naha out of a clear sky, as clear as the sky over San Francisco when we took off tonight, beautiful, almost cloudless, there came a sudden, small, black cloud. Ladies and gentlemen, when we went to bed at 8 o'clock thinking we'd be up the next morning and out on the way, of the night that we would have been on the trail, there was hardly a cloud anywhere, just the one. By 1.30 in the morning, we had been thoroughly whipped to pieces even though we were in this ancient ranch house by the fiercest hurricane naughty that that area has ever had in all of its history. And the next day, the sun was out and beautifully shining, and we flew over the area where we might have been encamped if we had

gone in as we had planned to go by horseback. And there we saw those 120, 140-foot trees interlaced like thrown straw right across the trail where we would have been. Had we been on that trail that night, had I had my way and given God no leeway, he never would have waited for me tonight. He would have waited for eternity because we just wouldn't have made it. But we finally made it into Naha. And now I want to tell you the sweetest experience of my life. Some of you may have heard me when I talked down here before tell about these Lacandones, a dying race. There are only 195 of them left. Fantastically sweet and wonderful people. When we arrived, I'll pose you the poser that we were met with. Down the hill, and it's quite a little hill, right next to the lake, before after the plane landed, those planes, those bush pilots, you know, they land and take off while you're getting your stuff out. Because minutes are precious to them.

And they practically kick you out of those well, like they throw the hogs out. You know, you ride in the same plane the hogs ride in. The smell isn't exactly the greatest thing, but boy, I'll tell you, it's better than slugging it out along some of those jungle trails when you can get a plane, as we were lucky to do. Anyhow, they were just taking off when all of a sudden from the top of this hill on this breakneck trail comes running this Lacandon. He was Jorge, one of our friends. And as soon as he had seen us, he came tearing down, yelling, my dove has been shot. My dove has been shot. And now begins a problem. I could understand that amount of Spanish. I knew what he was saying. His dove had been shot, but I didn't realize the significance nor the problem that I was to be faced with in very few minutes. So he came tearing down at breakneck speed. He pulled up before us. The most terrified man you have ever seen in your life. And he said,

my dove has been shot. It was shot by the Brujo. And my soul is gone. And every month at full moon I die. Give me a new soul. Now ladies and gentlemen, we had traveled 7,000 miles approximately to get there to put on tape some of these rare and wonderful chants. And yet we knew that if we didn't give that man a new soul, we'd have had it. We'd never get cooperation from those priests in the God hut. Because unless we were capable of doing almost anything that was asked of us, we were just mortals. They wanted to have trucked with great people, with God structured people, with Brujos of great power. And so we had to become Brujos. Now what would you do if you had an expedition sitting on the side of a lake where there was no protection, where nobody could hit you any minute I'm just giving you my problem as so-called leader leader of the expedition. I'm the follower. Anyway, what would you do to give this man a new soul? Well I'll tell you

what we did. And then I'll tell you something of the things that happened to us. We told him, first of all, that the story that had been put out by a missionary down there that there was going to be a time when the sun would be eaten by the moon and that all, unless they were Christians, they should become Christians because that would happen. And at that time, well they just should be Christians. I guess that's the story. It's the best I could get it. Now if you've ever seen anyone trying to prove to a man who doesn't even understand what eclipse is because they've lost some of the ancient knowledge of the ancient Mayans trying to show by the use of fists and the twisting of bodies and everything else that I knew what was going to happen when the moon ate the sun. And I convinced him that I did know because I put my hand right up close to his eyes and I'd show him now, you see when you look like that what do you see? Well you see

the sun. This is the sun over here. Now alright, now we're going to have the moon eat the sun. Now what do you see? Well you see the moon. This is the moon over here you see. And then I showed him how it went on and then I convinced him that the heavens were actually moving. It wasn't just the earth. And so I had a kind of a convert on my hands by the end of that. Now I'm a brujo. I'm a man of power. I have knowledge. I have skills. I can do something for him. Then, my job? Give him a soul. Well, the doctors, you know, they operate. But the metaphysician he has to approach it from a different way. And so I turned metaphysician. Having convinced him that I was a pretty powerful hombre, I mean muy muy fuerza, then I could talk to him about my power as being nothing because our gods, Jesus Christ and the most high god, God. Why? They were great people. They were wonderful things. They would never let any man, any man in all the world harm me.

Now, his gods, were they as good as our gods? Well, yes they were. Because if he didn't think so he should adopt Christianity. You see, I knew what the answer was going to be. Well, alright. If they're as good as our gods then would they let any man harm you? Well, yes. He might harm me because he shot my dove and he took my soul and I have no soul and I can't fight him back. But if you had a soul, what then? Why, if I had a soul then I'd be better than he is because now I have knowledge. Alright then. If my Jesus Christ wouldn't let anyone harm me will your hachakum let anyone harm you? Well, no. Not really, except, well, you understand what happened. He shot my dove and we're right back again in the same situation. Alright. Then I said, I'll tell you what. Since my Jesus Christ has given me so much power I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll talk to your hachakum through my Jesus Christ and we'll get hachakum to tell us what to do.

Well, that sounded like a good deal. So we talked to Jesus Christ and he gave us a very good solution back from hachakum. And this is the solution. We had some very powerful mysterious medicine. It was so powerful that if a man touched it with his hands it would blister him. The only way he could take it was to put it far back on his tongue and swallow it immediately with lots of water. Now, this powerful medicine I was going to give him two. And he would find that it caused his heart to beat fast. It caused him to sweat a little bit. And he would find that this powerful, powerful, powerful medicine made him all relaxed and feeling strange and floaty. His name was Aspirin and I was praying for an Aspirin reaction. And if we had this strange floaty feeling then this was a sign that the powerful medicine was working for him. But that wasn't enough. That was simple stuff. That was man-sized stuff. Now we're going to get Jesus Christ

and hachakum in here. They had promised that if we could get a dove to come and take some of this powerful medicine then that dove they would see would be eternal. You see? And so even if the brujo shot this dove, then the spirit would immediately go over to another dove and take it on and there he'd have a new soul because that's where his soul resided. In that dove. And so we'd give him a spirit dove that would do everything for all the rest of his life that he could possibly want. And no man thereafter could get in between him and his hachakum. He would be a powerful man. He would be a good man. He'd find he couldn't drink the Baal-Cheh and make himself drunk because he just couldn't stomach it. It would make him sick if he drank too much. So we would try this. Now we had this little thing all set up and he was believing us. And this, if you wish to believe it, is hypnosis. But our job then was to convince him that the dove

had come down and eaten the powerful medicine. Now how to do this? Well, we figured it out. We gave him the two pills. And we wanted time for the reaction to start in. I figured if he never had aspirin he might get this kind of reaction. But we told him that we'd take this other pill. We were carrying it on a special piece of cardboard that we manufactured for the occasion. And we took it in the moonlight carrying it with great reverence and we put it on a log. Well, it was a little log in their country. It was only about this high and it was only about a hundred feet long. A little log. Big logs in there running up to 140 and they're this high or higher. But we put it on this little log out there in the jungle. And I had it all figured out how I could slip down the trail early in the morning and I could slip out around on the other side and I could come down along that log and I could reach up and I could get that magic medicine.

And if I had to I'd take it myself although I'd get it out of sight and then I'd get out of sight and nobody would know that it disappeared. Then he believed that the dove had really he would believe that he had this power to overcome this brujo and he'd become a regular good citizen again. Well, this was great. It was all fine. We left the pill there and I got my flashlight on and I turned to speak to him and I turned back again and then I go and the next morning I'm sneaking out of the sack early and I bump into Vicente Doria who was out of the sack but not for the same purpose. And he said, what are you doing up? With a few other words in between. And I said, well, my job is to go and get that pill. I've got to get out there and get around that jungle and get that pill and get back in the sack before anybody sees me. He said, oh, go back to bed. I palmed that damn thing last night. So I had worried all night about getting that dove

to eat that pill and I didn't need to worry at all. The dove had already eaten it. And ladies and gentlemen it worked. He's a good man now. He knows he's the equivalent of any man in the jungle. And so we went in. We were received by these people the next day rather handsomely. We were given any of the recordings we wanted to make. We made, well, we sent back for broadcast about seven and a half hours I think about seven hours and fifteen minutes was broadcast for us. And of that they used some of these ancient chants that we recorded. First time in history it had ever been done. Beautiful. Do you believe in the effectiveness of sound, of the sacred sounds of the mantram itself and you ever get a chance to hear these tapes on the air? Get close. Turn on your recorder. Get them. Hear them time after time after time after time for though this is a degenerate people they have from their ancient history and their ancient religion

these sacred things which are greater by far than anything they understand. And remember that no matter who chants the mantram as long as he chants it with intent even if he does not understand it it works. It's magic. This is the law of the mantram maker. And now just one final point we got the recordings we took all of the pictures we wanted it was a beautiful friendly group reading our minds time after time after time as they do in their thought course religion down there just giving us things that we wanted before we really had expressed our desire for them and at the very end two wondrous things happened and with this we will close. The first was this you remember I told you that the time before to get her to keep rather than lose this unborn child because she was under witchcraft and the whole village knew she was going to lose the child and I used hypnosis on her to get her to keep the child I also used a lot of vitamin B

and all the complexes and I'm not sure which worked but one of them did this gorgeous little chickadee of a child just a little bitty thing and guess what the name is my name is Eugenio in Spanish and this is Eugenia now I want to show you something when I was hypnotizing her and I was telling her that Jesus Christ would do this for her and everything else and I was giving her the old Brujo treatment loud and stentorian I had said you are to have this child you know I had a 50% chance of being right I missed it but they call the child Eugenio after me I'm so proud I could practically bust and then there is one other thing that happened I said they read our minds and I believe they do for the old man Chan King quite old I would say he is around 83 or 4 or 5 years old a sweet old gentleman who seems to like me but he likes my wife more a real well he was the one that offered four hundred four hundred thousand times four hundred ears of corn

for my wife you see what I mean this old gentleman had been the cause of us getting these sacred chants and also the last time we were in there we had the holographs of the sacred Mayankusa ceremony but this time as we were leaving he came to me and he said when you come again in two years I will be dead there are many chants of our ancient fathers that you couldn't get this time I will teach them to my sons so that when you come again in two years you may have them I will be dead tomorrow we shall start to build for you a champa this is a grass covered hut hut that they live in we shall build it high enough because there are short people and they put these braces on and we go around in the champas like this because if we stand up our noggins are really knocked we shall build it high enough that you can live in it and it shall be your home when you come again two years from now we have been many places we have searched for knowledge

that may be of benefit to mankind we have had friendships and gifts we have had love and once in a while a little adulation we have had people come to us and say this is good and we feel good about that but I ask you could there be a sweeter thing in any persons life or any groups life than this when a people from the ancient past with the ancient knowledges will say we build a home that you may come and live with us this ladies and gentlemen was undoubtedly the sweetest moment of all my life

are there any questions that you would like to ask I have only one promise I will not guarantee to answer them to my satisfaction but I am sure to answer them to my satisfaction

yes ma'am Moyos I believe if I remember correctly and they are the belief of the Zocays as I recall one of the small rather insignificant tribes down in the Tehuantepec area and they are presumably of high skill but it might be physical skill too they have the ability to affect and therefore supply they have the ability to affect food supply plants trees even animals they can cause game to hide away even though I may be mixing up the myths a little bit they can cause game to hide away even though you are looking directly at the game you can't see it this type of thing is still good to them in general all of the myths are the same they hide in the waterfalls in the caves behind waterfalls in places where you can't detect them yet where they can always see you I have never seen one I have never seen an elush

I have only seen the symbol of it you are aware too that they are over in the Britain area the leprechauns you are aware too that they are very strong you are aware that they are also believed in China you are aware that they are also believed in most of the middle European groups and cultures the research is not yet adequate to say there is a connection but I can say this that in

[01:55:37] Closing remarks

every one of the ancient religions there is some kind of an implication of the infant that becomes the great one now let's take it back to the area down there as you know the Olmecas the Olémecs the people of the rubber country down in the Veracruz coast area and inland from there these people had a peculiar combination of gods in their religion and they worshipped the jaguar and don't start me on the jaguar symbol because I can spend four hours explaining that to you but I'll just tell you in a hurry that literally the jaguar is the symbol for the radiant part of man the radiant spiritual part of man well I have to be careful when I say that because then I'm coming to a nomenclature that already has a very defined meaning and if I say astral body and someone has studied and knows what well the yogas mean by the astral body then they're limited in their understanding of what I'm trying to say because I think it goes beyond what the

yogas mean by astral body I think it goes to and includes the radiant body and part of the mental body and so I just have to say the radiant portion of man in order not to limit it with my own nomenclature alright now they worship the jaguar but strangely enough they worship also a baby faced god and here is the interesting thing they worship a combination of the jaguar and the baby face now this permeated the structure of almost all of those areas down there and in Monte Alban you will find and at Tres Sepertecas and also from La Pinta you find these little symbol structures that they made like a statuette or a statue you might call them a god pot although they weren't always used for this purpose for incense but these permeate the whole culture down there why? the combination of the young god and the jaguar why? it's worth another lecture frankly I'm not sure I know the answer to it although I think I do

I don't think so the chocmol comes from the god structure essentially the Toltec god structure before Topilson took the flight from up in the area of Tula or Teotihuacan whichever place he started when the 3,200,000 of his subjects were killed in the battle 1612 people lived and he took the flight from his area and ended up in the Chichen Itza area now from Tula which is undoubtedly older than Chichen Itza I said undoubtedly as far as I'm concerned not a scientist in the group stood up and said you're nuts so I'm going to keep on saying it though they all seem to say that Tula is very late because it was discovered very late discovered by a man who wasn't really a specialist he was just a man that sort of studied the myths and came up with answers and finally he said that has to be the location of Tula dig and you'll find something they dug and they found this wonderful city of Tula this Tula area being found late is presumed to have been late

but we believe that the evidences are that it was not built in a hurry so far back that they didn't know how to handle stone and had nothing to handle it with and so they couldn't face it with stone as they did later but at Tula you find the well the Chocmul a very primitive type of thing then you follow Topilson's flight and you find the Chocmul where he went and where he ended especially do you find it at Chichen Itza now in the later time of the Mayans the Chocs the four Chocs were the ones that stood at the corner of the world and held up the sky they were the directions from which the wind came they were in a way a sort of intermediary between man and the elements a protective intermediary so the Chocs and the Chocmul get all confused and sort of wound up and together and frankly I don't think there is any basic connection for I believe that originally the Chocmul was the symbol which they used with the platter on the stomach which they say

they put the heart in that I don't think so I think that the Chocmul with that strange twist to his head you know how he sits was the symbol that they used of man's eternal quest the strain the way he sits, lies looks with a turned head and everything man always questing with all kinds of physical expenditure of physical energy and with self torture so to speak and I think that originally that platter was used purely and simply for the burning of incense and that the Chocmul was nothing in the world but a symbol of man's torture of himself in trying to bring forth the holy one from within well thank you thank you pal I've read Morley and I have a lot of respect for him I've also read this tremendous book by Covarrubias, Mexico South he's a lot better Eduardo Thompson some of his writings gets awfully close to the idea of the Elush and when he talks about this first experience he had at the well at Chichen and about the old house, the old

what did they call it broken down house where he went to stay overnight and the experience he had there for a man who was pretty hard headed and scientific he certainly got close to the mythological and the mystical

I believe that any of those altars down there were erected for any but one basic purpose that's to initiate the candidate into the secrets of the ancient mysteries of which healing is only one

you had your hand up a moment ago excuse me did I answer your question

my belief is without being able to get any scientific evidence in there that Tula is not the place that Topilson built to rest up after the battle because he had only 1612 people my belief is that Tula is the place where when they first came down from wherever it is the split pyramid or wherever the Huehuetolan is that's the place where they first came and rested I believe I personally believe from everything I can discover and if I had the pictures here I could show you from the fact that the few rocks that are used at the split pyramid are absolutely the crudest kind of workmanship and even a savage of 2000 years BC even a savage of that time anywhere in that country literally gouged out rock with rock and this is a sacred temple so they never hurried to do those things it wasn't done in a hurry it was just done to the top of their possible skill because this is evident it seems to me that the rock work at the split pyramid indicates nothing less

than 8000 years BC now let's go a little step further because this is way out and this will go with me but then I'm going to say let's go see let's forget that I have a theory let's get someone who wants to go back into the past and try to really forget about anybody's theories and if they prove me wrong I'll be the first to say Eureka! I don't give a darn because I got them out there to really explore that area

for the first time in history this particular one from the first time they were recorded we were told that they'd never been recorded before I may have mentioned in the presence of some of you I see some faces that I've seen before as I was talking mentioned that one of the most to me fascinating things about the taking of the ceremony in motion pictures when we weren't recording was the chanting that went along with it I may have mentioned to some of you too that the assistant priest was doing certain things you know painting the place and when the priest stopped chanting then the assistant priest just stopped and he stood that way for about a minute and a half or two minutes the chanting started and he started doing his work again see this is one of the things I observed down there this is one of the things that made me want so much the mantra in itself is said to be very old the interpretation they put on the mantra is very mundane

I mean I sing to the for instance this type of thing I may not quote one exactly but I sing to the jaguar I sing to the jaguar that he may not hide beside the trail I sing to the jaguar that he may go far into the forest and out of my way I sing to the jaguar that he may send healing to my wife who is ill and if this healing comes from the jaguar to my wife who is ill I will pay kopal I will pay kopal I will pay kopal see this is the type of thing they are doing but they are using the ancient Mayan words to do it with and they always use these in connection with almost always the mantra so what are they singing to I sing to the jaguar I sing to the internal spirit of man myself they don't recognize some of the symbols they don't know this is what they are saying but they are using the mantra to produce an effect and they produce a hypnotic effect on each other with it and they will produce you will be under the influence of the same hypnotic effect

just hearing the sounds I just swear to you that you just get the rhythm and the cadence and you get the feel and the swing and you feel the whole background of the forest and then all of a sudden when he ends up with he will break into you just exactly like he intended to break into his chant so that the person who is listening is immediately released

from the power of the mantra to be able to reproduce him we would be perfectly happy to send you a copy as soon as we can get the reproducing system the Russians say

that they have broken the Mayan codices that they can tell you what the Mayans thought and said and did from the use of their machines I have been down there a good deal I have never seen a Russian around one of those temple sites the Russians say that they have knowledges with regard to the ancient Mayan religion something out of this world I have never been able to get any information on what they know and I am fascinated by it so I am always trying to