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1960 December Kyw Radio Interview On Dimension Show Major Keyhoe 54m P275

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[00:00] Opening remarks and introduction

Bill Fields, he is here with station KYW in Cleveland, Ohio, and they operate on a frequency of 1100, 1100 kilocycles, you know, AM radio.

So, let's get on. I didn't exactly tie in right at the beginning of the program because I didn't have my tape recorder set up that night, so you'll first hear Mr. Stringfield with the Air Force down in Cincinnati, Ohio.

So, how much would I miss? I don't know, but there's still quite a bit there left to get enough meaning.

So, here we go to the program dimension, and let's see, that's on at 9 o'clock, but the thing I forgot to do is write the date down, but I know it was the first or second week of December, sometime in there.

What the actual date is of the program, I don't know, but here we will go.

Where were you? This is the U.S. Voting Publication.

The newsletter. The newsletter. The newsletter. Now, what does that mean? It was presumptuous planetary flying objects. I see. It was a changeover from the UFO to 2500s.

Frank Edwards has proved one thing, that thousands of people were interested in the subject, in spite of the fact that the Air Force said that the subject had a waning interest.

[03:00] Interview segment

I received something like 18,000 letters. The UFO yourself? Yes, I want to go back a little further in there.

Three days before this, our plane encountered three objects.

It apparently became a dipsy doodle publication.

I felt that I'm getting a good report.

Of course, I had the understanding and knowledge of.

To 1956, of course.

Then there was a view of a retired Marine Corps officer, Major Donald E. Kehoe.

Now, Major Donald Kehoe, are you there, Major?

Yes, I am, Major. This is Bill Fields of KYW. We here are interested in flying saucers. I've read one of your books, one called The Flying Saucer Conspiracy. Oh, yes. Now, could you tell us the name of your later book?

It stands now. Yes. Now, Major, many of us are interested in the flying saucer. The Flying Saucer Conspiracy, as you call it. When you first started thinking about these secret devices, these UFOs, so-called. It was a network.

It was absolutely contrary. In the Utah situation, as you reported in your book, The Flying Saucer Conspiracy. Could you tell us about that? Maneuvering over Tremont and the Navy.

It seems to be a general twining once said that we were unable to communicate with the UFOs for physical reasons.

Have you ever heard anything like that, sir? Well, I think that... Well, I think that... Well, I think that... Well, I think that... Well, I think that... Well, I think that... Well, just two other questions, sir.

I know you're busy. There was an Air Force... There was an Air Force bulletin. There was a bulletin to all Air Force commands, I believe, in the world, 1959.

An unclassified bulletin that said something to the effect that UFOs are... A Matt Force line would be then to deny the existence of these things.

If this is true, then UFOs...

Would you... Would you... A general direction of some kind of an official announcement? Control this policy is going to be forced in that direction because there are so many...

And network people...

When these things... Miles an hour. Mm-hmm. These sources seem to concentrate in certain areas, as you know. Is there any theory on your part... They began to send up rockets.

They started to observe them. They have watched atomic energy centers, areas, and so on. Thoughts about the nature of the propulsive power of these...

Involved the... Including 1948...

Civilization.

There was no hostility.

Listening to this program tonight...

Please give us once again the name of your new...

Fine. Thank you, Major Donald Keyhole, for talking to us. We certainly appreciate it. Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you, and goodbye, sir. All right. There was more long-distance activity, another call to Washington, and a man with an entirely different view. Lieutenant Colonel Lawrence Tacker of the United States Air Force. Your party on the... Yes, sir. I should... Are you going to... Yes, I just want you to know that.

Based on UFOs, you have just written a book called Flying Saucers and the U.S. Air Force.

That's correct. Donald Keyhole of the U.S. Marine Corps, he's retired, has written a book also, Opposite Views.

And I'd like to get your story. I must tell you, in all fairness, I have talked to Major Keyhole.

Let us, for a better term, call them things that have been cited, sir. Incidentally, just per...

One about the 1959 Pacific sightings. Yes, sir. Would you tell us about those? No offense by this.

I'm just trying to get both sides of the story, and I want you to understand this. It has been suggested that the Air Force has been wanting to hush-hush.

Is there any basis to this? The claim is that the research organization of Tucson, Arizona, or the Unidentified Flying Object Research Committee in Akron, Ohio,

these people ask them for the evidence.

They can't produce this evidence.

And as a scientist, it leaves me quite frustrated. There is nothing there that any scientist could truly call scientific evidence. There are no detailed numerical results that can be used as a basis of computations.

[24:26] Development of the interview themes

There are no spectrum analysis of light. No reports.

Furthermore... There was a directive, I think that you will be familiar with.

Number 1953, Air Force Directive.

Any pilot who reveals an official UFO report can be imprisoned for one to ten years, fined up to $10,000.

Title 18, U.S. Code 793. What would be the reason for that? Can you identify it?

Regulation and JANEP 146, which is the joint regulation for all the services on intelligence sightings. My book, and I don't know of any 50... This has come to my attention. Can you answer me this? What is the activities of CIRVIS, C-I-R-V-I-S, which means... Oh, now you're talking about JANEP 146. That's just what you're talking about. A service report is a report from an airborne...

...vessels of the Navy, etc., or from Army... ...organizations. I see. In other words, the... It's simply a voluntary... ...in this information in two government channels from civilian sources. And CIRVIS is an abbreviation for Communications Instructions for Reply... ...or for Reporting Vital Intelligence Sightings, right? That's the idea. And this doesn't necessarily mean just a UFO. It could be a bunch of steamships. It could be troop concentrations. It could be anything. You see? Yes. It's a much broader thing. Sir, again, I don't mean to be disrespectful at all. But how do you... How do you discount actual photographs that have been taken? We have never seen a photograph of a UFO with any detail.

...to you, and I don't mean to be disrespectful. That's all. You know how to keep saying that. I understand it. It has been suggested to me that the Air Force is hushing up... ...call it UFO...

...said this for many years, that spaceships do exist. In other words, they're telling the public this. Have you seen any panic, Bill? We told it to them. Everybody would panic. One other point I'd like to... ...put across to you, Bill... Go ahead, sir. ...as a unit, as one department in the Department of Defense, I don't think it could hush us as your Air Force,

the uncles of all of us,

and it's made up in the main part of it.

Now, you don't say this cannot possibly happen.

Oh, no possibility, and that's why we're still looking. We simply say that troops are at disposal

of scientific resources to solve sightings when they are reported. We have the resources of the Air Research and Development Committee.

...with any place in the world... ...with any place in the world... ...in the world... ...the total, but what is the...

I've just got a minute here. What is the U.S. Air Force's official position? The official position, Bill, is that we do not... ...no evidence to date that spaceships have come to our atmosphere

and have looked us over. We have no evidence of this nature at all. To this day. And when you do get that evidence, will it be released to the public? I'm positive it would be released almost immediately, Bill. As I said before, I don't see how it could be withheld. I think it would be an event of such significance that it could not be... Thank you, Colonel Tack. I certainly appreciate your taking the time out to talk to us. Now, I have asked folks to buy Major Kehoe's book, and I'd like to urge that they buy your book, too. It's called Flying Saucers in the U.S. Air Force. In the U.S. Air Force. And it's by Van Nostrand. That's right, sir. And it's the official Air Force story. It's the official Air Force position. Thank you so much for talking to me, sir. All right, Bill. Bye now. Frank Edwards, the noted Mutual Broadcasting Company news commentator, is an accurate, reliable, sober, literate, and outspoken reporter,

and was at first a non-believer. I caught up with Mr. Edwards in Indianapolis, Indiana. You were there, Mr. Edwards, that day, and there were many people.

What Bird had said to me up there told me what had happened.

Force Director General.

Accurately identified as serious U.S. Air Force business.

54 in Amarillo, because we have nothing to be afraid of.

59.

There are things which are fully authenticated, happenings which...

We've attempted to clarify some of the attitudes to probe the... to solve the paradox, and we're left with a riddle. We don't know whether saucers or objects exist or not. The body of evidence is impressive. We only know that a subject capable of generating the heat, no pun intended, of flying saucers, perhaps deserves a more objective, open, and unbiased examination than has hitherto been given. In the words of Father Birkenhauer... That the attitude ought to be not one of an alarmist, but one of an objective scientist. I see no reason, either drawn from religion or revelation, or drawn from the nature of things, why God could not have many other beings in other parts of the universe. Certainly, God's plans are deep and hard to fathom. And we have spent generations, thousands of years,

[43:26] Closing discussion

trying to fathom the marvels of our own planet. But my own view is that we ought to take the attitude of a scientist towards unidentified flying objects, and not the attitude of a science fiction writer. You have been listening to Dimension, KYW's audio exploration into the amazing world around us through the medium of the tape recorder and the spoken word. Dimension is presented each week in cooperation with the 23 colleges and universities in Northern Ohio, tonight on behalf of John Carroll University. This is Bill Fields, inviting you to join us next week from 9 to 11, when once again KYW will present Dimension. This is Westinghouse Radio in Cleveland, KYW and KYW-FM. Let us look at the present. The life of the Southern Negro hasn't changed too much. He's still considered an untouchable by the minority. But his understanding and knowledge of medicine and sanitation has stopped his high mortality rate. He's able to hold a job, a very decent job,

but he's... He's still the last to be hired and the very first to be fired. He's able to own as much property as he can afford, as long as he stays within the Negro limits. He can go where he please and eat where he please, as long as he's under that sign which reads, Colored Only. Like every other citizen, he pays his taxes and serves his country in military duty. Segregation is still his accepted way of life, but he has strengthened his constitution and his constitutional shield with education. Through this education, he has learned that the true meaning of democracy is the judging of a person by his ability alone, not by his race, his color, or his creed. So he struggles through high school and through college, hoping that someday he will live in a Southern democratic state. For most of the Negroes in the Southern states, voting is now an exercise privilege, and rights. Running for government office is possible, but not practical.

So as you can see, the life of a Southern Negro is hindered very much. In the other parts of the United States, the Negro is enjoying all rights and privileges he receives as a citizen. He's able to go where he choose and do what he likes. I'd like to use myself as an example of a typical American citizen. I'd like to use myself as an example of a typical American citizen. I'd like to use myself as an example of a typical American citizen. I'd like to use myself as an example of a typical American teenager of Negro extraction growing up under the United States Constitution. At the age of four, I received my first privilege as an American citizen. I went to a public school. There were many different races and nationalities at this school, and I'm happy to say that I felt accepted by all. Now I attend a school where the majority of the student body is Jewish. I belong to certain committees and attend certain service clubs

where I work very closely with the community. I belong to certain committees and attend certain service clubs where I work very closely with the community. I'm also happy to say that we get along wonderfully. Our friendship circles are formed to bring us closer together, not to compare the color of our skin. Our friendly hellos are said from the heart with the intention of being nice, not to hear each other's accents. Yes, under this Constitution, I'm able to enjoy many of the privileges my forefathers would have been killed for. And I'm also honestly thankful that under this same Constitution, I will someday become a lawyer, and I will defend people of every race, religion, and nationality. Hallelujah. Mr. Director, honorable judges, ladies and gentlemen, I have chosen for my subject the man of bronze. The night was black as all hell, erased from the setting sun, the reflection of the sun, the light of the sun, the light of the sun,

the light of the sun, the light of the sun, the light of the sun, the light of the sun, the light of the sun, the light of the sun, the light of the sun, the light of the sun, the inspiring star

upon the clouds. The sea was still as the small ship slowly moved through the water. From utter confusion and frustration, the man of bronze stood and raised his head to look upon the new land in which he had been taken. Beaten, bewildered, confused, he had to assume the role of a slave. Ostracized from his freedom, he longed vainly as his spirit to retaliate on the skins, and on the horizon, the story of the journey has allWoven. was slowly broken. A whipped man lay at the mercy of his conqueror. Antiquation among his women

brought forth children without a home. Where proud men stood, nothing remained but fear, hatred, and insecurity. In his anguish, he turned to theology and found a ray of hope. As night slowly rolled away, the sea was calm. From the dim-lit sky there came a ray of hope

that shone on the little ship as it slowly pushed on. The man of bronze raised his head

in acknowledgment. His face thrived on the gentle ray. A gleam of hope was in his eyes.

Across the Mississippi into Ohio, there, a printer and his daughter who lived only a short distance from the Mississippi River. It got very cold in the winter, and the great Mississippi would freeze. The plantation owners

didn't welcome this change in season with complacency, but it was because of the great loss in sickness and death of slaves. But moreover, it was an excellent time for freedom-loving slaves to escape. In a little cabin in the back of the big plantation, the bronze man waited impatiently for the darkness to descend. The days were short and the nights were long. This was to his advantage. The man had no shoes, only a mere rag of a coat. He hurriedly tore up

a blanket and two. With the use of a light rope he made shoes of cloth. He moved cautiously

through the room, through the door and peered out. He knew it was now or never. Thoughts raced through his mind. If I'm caught it will mean certain death. I'll be used as an example to defer the actions of others. Within a second he left the cabin and his escape began. He was safe as long as he could get past the dogs. About 60 feet from them, the dog found was in sight.

He stopped and proceeded cautiously across. But fate was against him. The dogs howled and the alarm was giving. His shot was heard and the hunt was on. The man ran frantic. The ropes from his shoe of cloth were coming loose and he tripped into the rope and fell to his feet. He could hear the dogs in the distance. He quickly unraveled the rope and ran to his feet.

The man was free from the hunt and now he had escaped. The man's feet were frozen and his hands

were numb. It seemed like hours before he could reach the river. He crawled. Mr. Director, honorable

judges, ladies and gentlemen, I have chosen for my subject the Negro under the United States Constitution. I have chosen for my subject the Negro under the United States Constitution. I have chosen for my subject the Negro under the United States Constitution. I have chosen for my subject the Negro under the United States Constitution. I have chosen for my subject the Negro under the United States Constitution. I have chosen for my subject the Negro under the United States Constitution. remove pasar Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude except as a punishment for a crime whereof the party Shall have been duly convicted shall exist within the United States or any place under their Mend Heroes jurisdiction. Mend Heroes shaded The amending of this amendment to the United States Constitution meant that slaves were now considered free and equal to everyone. Slaves in the United States Constitution After the approval of the 14th amendment, the sl Lovin law dispensed Prince David Prus Jones

of hiding denies all right from theünüz of the United States and women of non- specularism, none by right on theiroophing toaine which gave them the protection of the law as citizens, they received all rights and privileges they needed in order to enjoy this new freedom. The life of a Negro under the United States Constitution could be compared to a new book. Instead of the old title, I am a Negro slave, it was now called, I am an American citizen of Negro extraction. The beginning of this life was hard and trying for everyone. The Negro wanted to become an average, educated American citizen, while some of his fellow Caucasian citizens wanted him to remain a good source of cheap labor. He, the Negro, was given a third-class citizenship, which could easily be compared to the untouchables of unenlightened India. Because of his unfortunate situation, his home was often the birthplace of many communicable diseases

and, instead of being looked upon as a person who needed help and understanding, he became known as the untouchable, germ-carrying American citizen. From the very beginning, he was told what to do and what to say. He was told where he could go and where he did not belong. With the Constitution as his shield, he tried to walk a long and very difficult road, when he found that he was being deprived of most of his freedom. With his privileges, he tried hard to fight back, but was often defeated in the first round. He began to realize that the Constitution was actually something which everyone praised, but few followed. So he became content, or rather adjusted, to being segregated from his fellow citizens. Burning with the desire to be educated, he overlooked